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This is just begging the question: why does it become everyone’s business? Once you give someone something, it’s theirs (in the most simplistic sense). If there

This is just begging the question: why does it become everyone’s business? Once you give someone something, it’s theirs (in the most simplistic sense). If there are social welfare programs that are doling out cash to low income families, we shouldn’t care how that money is spent, but whether or not the money alleviates the issues we are trying to eliminate. How and what that money is spent on is irrelevant as long as the problems are dealt with. Fortunately, we don’t need to know what the money is spent on to measure whether or not the program is working.

pickdenis 6y ago
Is there an implicit contract between the benefactors of social programs and the beneficiary that requires the latter to use the aid to at least try to pull themselves out of poverty? I definitely lean towards the "yes" side. Maybe it's because I've been privileged, but it makes sense.
jonfw 6y ago
The concern isn't what poor people are doing with their money- the concern is what are the people receiving tax dollars doing with their money. > Fortunately, we don’t need to know what the money is spent on to measure whether or not the program is working. I could not disagree more- we absolutely do not have adequate measure of how these programs are working. You are trying to solve a problem upstream of a million factors- we aren't anywhere near measuring outcomes of single decisions.
- dole 6y ago
  The United States loses $90B in tax revenue annually from corporations offshoring their profits in shelters and havens. Which would we be more profitable monitoring and enforcing: who we’re paying out to, or who’s supposed to be paying us?
  - jonfw 6y ago
    Did you forget the topic of the discussion?
  - jonfw 6y ago
    Also worth mentioning- the government spends 2.3 trillion on healthcare and welfare, 90 billion is not a lot of money in this context.
ByteJockey 6y ago
> This is just begging the question: why does it become everyone’s business? Generally speaking, this assistance doesn't come as a big lump sum payment, they're usually structured as ongoing payments (or other benefits with a cash value). Because of the nature of this structure, money must be continually appropriated. The appropriation of resources by the government is something that, at least in democracies, the populace expects to have some input on.

pickdenis 6y ago

Is there an implicit contract between the benefactors of social programs and the beneficiary that requires the latter to use the aid to at least try to pull themselves out of poverty? I definitely lean towards the "yes" side. Maybe it's because I've been privileged, but it makes sense.

jonfw 6y ago

The concern isn't what poor people are doing with their money- the concern is what are the people receiving tax dollars doing with their money. > Fortunately, we don’t need to know what the money is spent on to measure whether or not the program is working. I could not disagree more- we absolutely do not have adequate measure of how these programs are working. You are trying to solve a problem upstream of a million factors- we aren't anywhere near measuring outcomes of single decisions.

dole 6y ago
The United States loses $90B in tax revenue annually from corporations offshoring their profits in shelters and havens. Which would we be more profitable monitoring and enforcing: who we’re paying out to, or who’s supposed to be paying us?
- jonfw 6y ago
  Did you forget the topic of the discussion?
- jonfw 6y ago
  Also worth mentioning- the government spends 2.3 trillion on healthcare and welfare, 90 billion is not a lot of money in this context.

ByteJockey 6y ago

> This is just begging the question: why does it become everyone’s business? Generally speaking, this assistance doesn't come as a big lump sum payment, they're usually structured as ongoing payments (or other benefits with a cash value). Because of the nature of this structure, money must be continually appropriated. The appropriation of resources by the government is something that, at least in democracies, the populace expects to have some input on.