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Why will non remote Canadians get excited about high speed internet? They already have that.

TheCapn 6y ago
Not sure of your knowledge of the Canadian Telecom market but in certain urban centers there's virtually no competition (or if there is competition its borderline collusion between our three major carriers). I know a lot of people wishing for competitive options to disconnect themselves from Rogers/Bell/Telus and would see this as something compelling.
- greeniron 6y ago
  not sure about collusion between the big 3, but for both my mobile and internet provider (2 different ones), i've successfully pitted them against each other by calling to say i'm switching over to their competitor and repeatedly got discounts for it. i'm currently paying $45/mth for 20gb from Fido Pulse BYOD plan with unlimited talk and text, and for home internet i'm paying $55/mth for 750mbps fibre from Telus.
  - nicholascamera 6y ago
    Wow, teach me how! I pay $67 for 13GB data and $60 for 40mpbs at home in Montreal. Which province?
    - pletsch 6y ago
      13gb for $67? What the hell. I thought I had a great plan at 6 gbs for $55. I remember everyone getting the 10gb for $60 deal a while back but I missed out on that one.
      - nicholascamera 6y ago
        That's $67 before taxes. I'm with Virgin (not a recommendation). They tend to call every 6 months (less lately) and ask if I'm happy. I always say it costs too much and I want more data. They gave me two bonus packages (something like $5 for 1GB or 2GB). That's how I got to relatively cheap 13GB. Nowadays they just look at other plans and say, nope, you're on something better than anything we offer now. FWIW Fizz is the new hotness here. They have worse coverage outside of metros, cheaper base plans, zero phone customer service (problem for negotiating cheaper deals I imagine), and rollover data, which Virgin does not.
    - greeniron 6y ago
      this is in BC. every 3-4 months, i keep calling, ask for "customer retention department" and threaten to leave. sometimes i just say "got any promos for me?" and they'll just offer whatever they can. sometimes if they have an attitude, i just hang up and call back for another more friendly agent. i've done this for the past 2 yrs and always ends up with at least a new $5/mth discount added to my bill, so by now my bill is super low.
      - nicholascamera 6y ago
        I will give this a shot!
- rapind 6y ago
  It's a little more nuanced. Yes Bell and Rogers have a duopoly but they are also required to sell network access at a regulated wholesale rate to other ISPs (Teksavvy, start.ca, etc as Ontario examples). It's kind of a weird setup, but you can read more about it here. https://www.google.com/search?q=The+CRTC+requires+telephone+and+cable+companies+to+sell+access+to+their+networks+to+independent+Internet+service+providers+(ISPs)+at+regulated+wholesale+prices https://www.google.com/search?q=The+CRTC+requires+telephone+.... Quote: ------ The CRTC requires telephone and cable companies to sell access to their networks to independent Internet service providers (ISPs) at regulated wholesale prices.
- def8cefe 6y ago
  >I know a lot of people wishing for competitive options to disconnect themselves from Rogers/Bell/Telus and would see this as something compelling. They wouldn't when they realise that it is a cheaper alternative to existing satellite internet services, not cable internet. Also that it would have reception issues in urban and suburban areas which is why they are targeting rural areas.
xoa 6y ago
>Why will non remote Canadians get excited about high speed internet? They already have that. They do? I live in northern New England an hour so from the border and have some Canadian friends who complain that they have at best the same sort of mediocre 5-10/1-2 ADSL I did up until a year or two ago when fiber became available. They refer to their phone company as "the Jolly Roger" with all said connotations. Looking at this Canadian National Broadband Internet Service Availability Map seems to back that up too: https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/bbmap/hm.html?lang=eng https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/bbmap/hm.html?lang=eng Looks like even 50/10 let alone anything better has pretty minimal penetration, with a lot on really mediocre speeds providing wider areas. Even before sat<>sat optical, Starlink has potential to do a lot better for a lot more people. And once density gets good enough with sat<>sat links, Starlink may flat out offer better latency to remote parts of the world then existing connections thanks to the 40% speed benefit of c in a vaccum/air vs non-photonic bandgap fiber and a more point-to-point topology. That won't matter to everyone but it may be very valuable to certain remote workers.
- tialaramex 6y ago
  > They do? I live in northern New England an hour so from the border and have some Canadian friends who complain that they have at best the same sort of mediocre 5-10/1-2 ADSL I did up until a year or two ago People are often better at complaining than at remedying their situation. Some years ago now I was at a friend's flat. He lamented that ASDL was poor. "They'll never offer anything better here" he said. I thought that was odd because I thought I'd seen a cabinet for his section of the district where we both live. So I suggested he check. He waved me off, no need to bother right because he's sure it isn't an option. So I typed his address into the checker and it said he could buy 80Mbps vDSL. As a result of course he has 80Mbps vDSL. Now, if I'd just agreed "Yeah, it sucks" how long do you think he would have taken to realise he could buy faster service? A year? Five years? Maybe he'd still be moaning now on our Friday Jitsi call instead of complaining that the terrible webcam setup he cobbled together back in late March sucks?
  - ghaff 6y ago
    But it's legitimately bad in a lot of places. My dad's house is on the coast near Acadia National Park and within about 10 minutes of what passes for a city in those parts. He's the last house on a road off the main road that gets broadband at all and it's ADSL that gets about 1Mbit down. You can't really do video. Houses further along the road need to do satellite or try their luck with pretty much equally mediocre cellular. And people have investigated because basically not having internet is something of a pain but it is what it is.
Reason077 6y ago
> "Why will non remote Canadians get excited about high speed internet?" I know Canada is a huge, sparsely populated country with many isolated, remote communities. But I'm astounded that "30 kilometres north of Toronto" is considered one of those locations so remote that you can't get fast, affordable internet service. So it seems like there are potentially a lot of "remote" Canadians.

Not sure of your knowledge of the Canadian Telecom market but in certain urban centers there's virtually no competition (or if there is competition its borderline collusion between our three major carriers). I know a lot of people wishing for competitive options to disconnect themselves from Rogers/Bell/Telus and would see this as something compelling.

greeniron 6y ago
not sure about collusion between the big 3, but for both my mobile and internet provider (2 different ones), i've successfully pitted them against each other by calling to say i'm switching over to their competitor and repeatedly got discounts for it. i'm currently paying $45/mth for 20gb from Fido Pulse BYOD plan with unlimited talk and text, and for home internet i'm paying $55/mth for 750mbps fibre from Telus.
- nicholascamera 6y ago
  Wow, teach me how! I pay $67 for 13GB data and $60 for 40mpbs at home in Montreal. Which province?
  - pletsch 6y ago
    13gb for $67? What the hell. I thought I had a great plan at 6 gbs for $55. I remember everyone getting the 10gb for $60 deal a while back but I missed out on that one.
    - nicholascamera 6y ago
      That's $67 before taxes. I'm with Virgin (not a recommendation). They tend to call every 6 months (less lately) and ask if I'm happy. I always say it costs too much and I want more data. They gave me two bonus packages (something like $5 for 1GB or 2GB). That's how I got to relatively cheap 13GB. Nowadays they just look at other plans and say, nope, you're on something better than anything we offer now. FWIW Fizz is the new hotness here. They have worse coverage outside of metros, cheaper base plans, zero phone customer service (problem for negotiating cheaper deals I imagine), and rollover data, which Virgin does not.
  - greeniron 6y ago
    this is in BC. every 3-4 months, i keep calling, ask for "customer retention department" and threaten to leave. sometimes i just say "got any promos for me?" and they'll just offer whatever they can. sometimes if they have an attitude, i just hang up and call back for another more friendly agent. i've done this for the past 2 yrs and always ends up with at least a new $5/mth discount added to my bill, so by now my bill is super low.
    - nicholascamera 6y ago
      I will give this a shot!
rapind 6y ago
It's a little more nuanced. Yes Bell and Rogers have a duopoly but they are also required to sell network access at a regulated wholesale rate to other ISPs (Teksavvy, start.ca, etc as Ontario examples). It's kind of a weird setup, but you can read more about it here. https://www.google.com/search?q=The+CRTC+requires+telephone+and+cable+companies+to+sell+access+to+their+networks+to+independent+Internet+service+providers+(ISPs)+at+regulated+wholesale+prices https://www.google.com/search?q=The+CRTC+requires+telephone+.... Quote: ------ The CRTC requires telephone and cable companies to sell access to their networks to independent Internet service providers (ISPs) at regulated wholesale prices.
def8cefe 6y ago
>I know a lot of people wishing for competitive options to disconnect themselves from Rogers/Bell/Telus and would see this as something compelling. They wouldn't when they realise that it is a cheaper alternative to existing satellite internet services, not cable internet. Also that it would have reception issues in urban and suburban areas which is why they are targeting rural areas.

xoa 6y ago

>Why will non remote Canadians get excited about high speed internet? They already have that. They do? I live in northern New England an hour so from the border and have some Canadian friends who complain that they have at best the same sort of mediocre 5-10/1-2 ADSL I did up until a year or two ago when fiber became available. They refer to their phone company as "the Jolly Roger" with all said connotations. Looking at this Canadian National Broadband Internet Service Availability Map seems to back that up too: https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/bbmap/hm.html?lang=eng https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/bbmap/hm.html?lang=eng Looks like even 50/10 let alone anything better has pretty minimal penetration, with a lot on really mediocre speeds providing wider areas. Even before sat<>sat optical, Starlink has potential to do a lot better for a lot more people. And once density gets good enough with sat<>sat links, Starlink may flat out offer better latency to remote parts of the world then existing connections thanks to the 40% speed benefit of c in a vaccum/air vs non-photonic bandgap fiber and a more point-to-point topology. That won't matter to everyone but it may be very valuable to certain remote workers.

tialaramex 6y ago
> They do? I live in northern New England an hour so from the border and have some Canadian friends who complain that they have at best the same sort of mediocre 5-10/1-2 ADSL I did up until a year or two ago People are often better at complaining than at remedying their situation. Some years ago now I was at a friend's flat. He lamented that ASDL was poor. "They'll never offer anything better here" he said. I thought that was odd because I thought I'd seen a cabinet for his section of the district where we both live. So I suggested he check. He waved me off, no need to bother right because he's sure it isn't an option. So I typed his address into the checker and it said he could buy 80Mbps vDSL. As a result of course he has 80Mbps vDSL. Now, if I'd just agreed "Yeah, it sucks" how long do you think he would have taken to realise he could buy faster service? A year? Five years? Maybe he'd still be moaning now on our Friday Jitsi call instead of complaining that the terrible webcam setup he cobbled together back in late March sucks?
- ghaff 6y ago
  But it's legitimately bad in a lot of places. My dad's house is on the coast near Acadia National Park and within about 10 minutes of what passes for a city in those parts. He's the last house on a road off the main road that gets broadband at all and it's ADSL that gets about 1Mbit down. You can't really do video. Houses further along the road need to do satellite or try their luck with pretty much equally mediocre cellular. And people have investigated because basically not having internet is something of a pain but it is what it is.

Reason077 6y ago

> "Why will non remote Canadians get excited about high speed internet?" I know Canada is a huge, sparsely populated country with many isolated, remote communities. But I'm astounded that "30 kilometres north of Toronto" is considered one of those locations so remote that you can't get fast, affordable internet service. So it seems like there are potentially a lot of "remote" Canadians.