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>“During this period, we started realizing that his bank account was being drawn down through purchases of games from Xbox and [Electronic Arts],” Dayman the el

>“During this period, we started realizing that his bank account was being drawn down through purchases of games from Xbox and [Electronic Arts],” Dayman the elder recalled. You should never trust any of these companies with your actual bank account. All of them have garbage customer service with hoops upon hoops to get real help if your account is somehow compromised. Use a credit card, prepaid card (in the US Amex gift cards you get at grocery stores will work just fine) or buy codes from Amazon and redeem them.

pmiller2 6y ago
Agreed. By extension, you also should not use a debit card as a credit card, for largely the same reasons. Credit cards have excellent fraud protections enshrined in law that are not extended to bank accounts or debit cards. Your individual banking experience may vary, however. For example, my credit union has a $0 liability guarantee for fraud on my debit card, but they are not required to offer that. Personally, the only companies that have direct access to my bank account are those that either won't accept credit cards, or make it excessively difficult to do so. Chief among them would be the service that processes my rent payments, and PG&E.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  > Personally, the only companies that have direct access to my bank account are those that either won't accept credit cards, or make it excessively difficult to do so. Chief among them would be the service that processes my rent payments, and PG&E. At banks that make it easy to have multiple checking accounts tied to one online account, create accounts just for these debits. Don't keep funds in them until close to the transfer date. "The Paypal Maneuver".
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    That defeats the purpose of having all these things on autopay for me.
    - inetknght 6y ago
      Your bank probably can probably set up monthly-automatic transfers.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Or auto overdraft from the pristine account to the airlock account.
        inetknght 6y ago
        ...and if you can't turn off "overdraft protection" then you should find a new bank. Especially if they charge a fee for overdrafting: it's just a fee for being poor.
        tomjakubowski 6y ago
        Does that not defeat the purpose of separating the accounts in the first place? If the airlock account info fell into malicious hands, the pristine account funds are now at risk.
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        It’s a fair point. Banks with this feature usually allow you to set dollar limits. Hard to provide generic advice due to how different fintech offerings are. My apologies.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    You still hit the same problem, and fraud is more costly to you with a bank account, with fees and potential bounced payments.
- tehwebguy 6y ago
  Even without the legal protections it's still better than exposing your bank info or debit card. If someone attempts to max the card out it won't directly affect your bank account balance (which you may need access to in the meantime) immediately.
  - epanchin 6y ago
    Is that how it works in the US? In the UK, your debit card is effectively your bank account. Maxing it would imply your account is empty, and overdrawn to the point where the bank will not lend you more. No lag.
    - gruez 6y ago
      That's the difference between a credit card and debit card. If a scammer drains your credit card, you won't be able to buy anything on that card, but the money is still in your bank account. You also have a grace period of around 2-3 weeks to pay it back, so you don't even accrue interest. If a scammer drains your debit card (aka bank card), then you've essentially lost access to all the money in the account. Resolving that could take days/weeks, which will be a problem if you need to pay bills or buy food/gas.
    - cortesoft 6y ago
      That is why they are suggesting a credit card and not a debit card. A credit card is just that; credit.
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      They were talking about using a credit card which is based on a credit limit not a debit card which here in the states is also based on your bank account. The argument being that if you expose a debit card which is basically like a digital checkbook to your bank account then you have 0 protections. If you use a credit card then you have plenty of legal recourse against fraud.
- muststopmyths 6y ago
  I have something called "Bill Pay" from my credit union where they send the checks for payment (Rather than the company drawing from your account). That's how I pay PG&E. You might want to investigate if your bank has the option (unless you already have, in which case never mind :)
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Then, I would have to manually initiate a payment, since the amount varies, which defeats the purpose of autopay.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    If a service takes a credit card with no fee, though, I always use that. Earn that cash back for free!
    - sukilot 6y ago
      Free = taking from the vendor and/or other customers via the card processor's extortion system
  - pdonis 6y ago
    Sending checks isn't really any different, since the checks contain the same information that you would provide the company to draw from the account. Even the one additional safeguard checks used to have, that they have to clear through the banking system so there's a paper trail, often doesn't apply any more since many companies will now process the check as an ACH transaction instead of a paper check transaction, the same as they would if they were drawing directly from your account.
    - muststopmyths 6y ago
      Well, this is different in the sense that I have to initiate a payment (or schedule a payment if the amount is fixed). The other side cannot just access my account to withdraw money.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  I've never had a problem with fraudulent debit charges being covered by a bank even though it's not required. The detection is the same as used for CCs and the card gets shut down immediately in most cases, even for legitimate charges outside your consumer profile.
  - hedora 6y ago
    I once had a joint credit/debit card. Someone made a fraudulent charge with it (probably the visa side unless my pin was compromised). My bank refused to refund the money unless I could prove the thief used the visa network to make the charge. Of course, that information was in their records, which they refused to share with me. The same bank frequently froze the card for “fraudulent” charges that I made. Eventually, I closed the account.
- brewdad 6y ago
  The only company with any access to my primary account is my brokerage. I have given access to a secondary account for Venmo which I only use to pay my child's music instructor since lessons are remote right now and I can't hand him a check. The secondary account nver has more than $400 in it and usually far less. Every other bill gets paid by credit card or gets pushed to the biller through online banking that I approve. No one gets to pull money from my primary bank account.
- kelnos 6y ago
  > For example, my credit union has a $0 liability guarantee for fraud on my debit card Even with that, I'd still prefer a credit card. If there's fraud on my CC, I haven't lost anything. If there's fraud on my debit card, there will be a period of time where that money will be gone before the bank investigates and decides to give it back to me. Even if they are 100% reliable at giving it back to me, the money is still inaccessible for some non-zero period of time.
judge2020 6y ago
Obligatory privacy.com mention. Them or any other virtual card service is better than giving your actual card, especially with the Visa/MC "card update service" that gives companies your new card number if it's changed. I've only encountered a few instances where using a virtual card is blocked, such as for pay-as-you-go services (GCP and Azure, for instance).
- jobigoud 6y ago
  My bank in France has this service built in. You set the amount and the expiration date and you get a virtual card. It's tied to the first commerce that uses it. That one commerce can use it multiple times as long as there are funds left. It works on Google Cloud Compute I used it last year. Then there is an option to completely block any transaction of my actual card for any online purchases. When I go on a trip I generate a few virtual numbers and write them down in case I need to make an online purchase from abroad.
- sneak 6y ago
  Obligatory mention that privacy.com and their app have tons of third party trackers embedded: anything but privacy.

pmiller2 6y ago

Agreed. By extension, you also should not use a debit card as a credit card, for largely the same reasons. Credit cards have excellent fraud protections enshrined in law that are not extended to bank accounts or debit cards. Your individual banking experience may vary, however. For example, my credit union has a $0 liability guarantee for fraud on my debit card, but they are not required to offer that. Personally, the only companies that have direct access to my bank account are those that either won't accept credit cards, or make it excessively difficult to do so. Chief among them would be the service that processes my rent payments, and PG&E.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
> Personally, the only companies that have direct access to my bank account are those that either won't accept credit cards, or make it excessively difficult to do so. Chief among them would be the service that processes my rent payments, and PG&E. At banks that make it easy to have multiple checking accounts tied to one online account, create accounts just for these debits. Don't keep funds in them until close to the transfer date. "The Paypal Maneuver".
- pmiller2 6y ago
  That defeats the purpose of having all these things on autopay for me.
  - inetknght 6y ago
    Your bank probably can probably set up monthly-automatic transfers.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Or auto overdraft from the pristine account to the airlock account.
      - inetknght 6y ago
        ...and if you can't turn off "overdraft protection" then you should find a new bank. Especially if they charge a fee for overdrafting: it's just a fee for being poor.
      - tomjakubowski 6y ago
        Does that not defeat the purpose of separating the accounts in the first place? If the airlock account info fell into malicious hands, the pristine account funds are now at risk.
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        It’s a fair point. Banks with this feature usually allow you to set dollar limits. Hard to provide generic advice due to how different fintech offerings are. My apologies.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  You still hit the same problem, and fraud is more costly to you with a bank account, with fees and potential bounced payments.
tehwebguy 6y ago
Even without the legal protections it's still better than exposing your bank info or debit card. If someone attempts to max the card out it won't directly affect your bank account balance (which you may need access to in the meantime) immediately.
- epanchin 6y ago
  Is that how it works in the US? In the UK, your debit card is effectively your bank account. Maxing it would imply your account is empty, and overdrawn to the point where the bank will not lend you more. No lag.
  - gruez 6y ago
    That's the difference between a credit card and debit card. If a scammer drains your credit card, you won't be able to buy anything on that card, but the money is still in your bank account. You also have a grace period of around 2-3 weeks to pay it back, so you don't even accrue interest. If a scammer drains your debit card (aka bank card), then you've essentially lost access to all the money in the account. Resolving that could take days/weeks, which will be a problem if you need to pay bills or buy food/gas.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    That is why they are suggesting a credit card and not a debit card. A credit card is just that; credit.
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    They were talking about using a credit card which is based on a credit limit not a debit card which here in the states is also based on your bank account. The argument being that if you expose a debit card which is basically like a digital checkbook to your bank account then you have 0 protections. If you use a credit card then you have plenty of legal recourse against fraud.
muststopmyths 6y ago
I have something called "Bill Pay" from my credit union where they send the checks for payment (Rather than the company drawing from your account). That's how I pay PG&E. You might want to investigate if your bank has the option (unless you already have, in which case never mind :)
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Then, I would have to manually initiate a payment, since the amount varies, which defeats the purpose of autopay.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  If a service takes a credit card with no fee, though, I always use that. Earn that cash back for free!
  - sukilot 6y ago
    Free = taking from the vendor and/or other customers via the card processor's extortion system
- pdonis 6y ago
  Sending checks isn't really any different, since the checks contain the same information that you would provide the company to draw from the account. Even the one additional safeguard checks used to have, that they have to clear through the banking system so there's a paper trail, often doesn't apply any more since many companies will now process the check as an ACH transaction instead of a paper check transaction, the same as they would if they were drawing directly from your account.
  - muststopmyths 6y ago
    Well, this is different in the sense that I have to initiate a payment (or schedule a payment if the amount is fixed). The other side cannot just access my account to withdraw money.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
I've never had a problem with fraudulent debit charges being covered by a bank even though it's not required. The detection is the same as used for CCs and the card gets shut down immediately in most cases, even for legitimate charges outside your consumer profile.
- hedora 6y ago
  I once had a joint credit/debit card. Someone made a fraudulent charge with it (probably the visa side unless my pin was compromised). My bank refused to refund the money unless I could prove the thief used the visa network to make the charge. Of course, that information was in their records, which they refused to share with me. The same bank frequently froze the card for “fraudulent” charges that I made. Eventually, I closed the account.
brewdad 6y ago
The only company with any access to my primary account is my brokerage. I have given access to a secondary account for Venmo which I only use to pay my child's music instructor since lessons are remote right now and I can't hand him a check. The secondary account nver has more than $400 in it and usually far less. Every other bill gets paid by credit card or gets pushed to the biller through online banking that I approve. No one gets to pull money from my primary bank account.
kelnos 6y ago
> For example, my credit union has a $0 liability guarantee for fraud on my debit card Even with that, I'd still prefer a credit card. If there's fraud on my CC, I haven't lost anything. If there's fraud on my debit card, there will be a period of time where that money will be gone before the bank investigates and decides to give it back to me. Even if they are 100% reliable at giving it back to me, the money is still inaccessible for some non-zero period of time.

judge2020 6y ago

Obligatory privacy.com mention. Them or any other virtual card service is better than giving your actual card, especially with the Visa/MC "card update service" that gives companies your new card number if it's changed. I've only encountered a few instances where using a virtual card is blocked, such as for pay-as-you-go services (GCP and Azure, for instance).

jobigoud 6y ago
My bank in France has this service built in. You set the amount and the expiration date and you get a virtual card. It's tied to the first commerce that uses it. That one commerce can use it multiple times as long as there are funds left. It works on Google Cloud Compute I used it last year. Then there is an option to completely block any transaction of my actual card for any online purchases. When I go on a trip I generate a few virtual numbers and write them down in case I need to make an online purchase from abroad.
sneak 6y ago
Obligatory mention that privacy.com and their app have tons of third party trackers embedded: anything but privacy.