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> From a meta standpoint, it's interesting to me that the most vociferous deniers of free speech throughout history have made some version of the case "But they

> From a meta standpoint, it's interesting to me that the most vociferous deniers of free speech throughout history have made some version of the case "But they're wrong!" (You can add stupid, evil, whatnot. The point is that whatever they're saying, it should not be said because it is not correct) Although you're talking about historical cases, perhaps some more modern cases against free speech would better update you as to the state of the arguments in philosophy. I have a comment with some citations here[0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23136757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23136757

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Hey, this is politics, not philosophy. Those philosophical arguments will affect the politics in... maybe 30 to 70 years? Of course, by then the philosophical arguments will have moved on...
- claudiawerner 6y ago
  I think our politics should be grounded in solid philosophical principles, after all, that's what gave rise to the high-minded principles of freedom of speech, privacy, and abolition of slavery. Besides, all it would take to turn this from "philosophy" (which is already philosophy of the first amendment and law) to "politics" is for someone to argue for it. When a group starts arguing for something you don't like from philosophical principles, you'll regret not addressing their arguments earlier. The philosophical issue is already political, and it was made political by MacKinnon and Dworkin during the Sex Wars in the 80s and 90s.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    What I mean is, most people don't think. They get their philosophy second-hand. So the philosophical ideas of today take decades to affect the thinking of enough people to move the needle of politics. > When a group starts arguing for something you don't like from philosophical principles, you'll regret not addressing their arguments earlier. Absolutely. And yet it is also true that, if you want to move the bulk of people today, you have to start from a point that fits within their existing philosophical framework.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

Hey, this is politics, not philosophy. Those philosophical arguments will affect the politics in... maybe 30 to 70 years? Of course, by then the philosophical arguments will have moved on...

claudiawerner 6y ago
I think our politics should be grounded in solid philosophical principles, after all, that's what gave rise to the high-minded principles of freedom of speech, privacy, and abolition of slavery. Besides, all it would take to turn this from "philosophy" (which is already philosophy of the first amendment and law) to "politics" is for someone to argue for it. When a group starts arguing for something you don't like from philosophical principles, you'll regret not addressing their arguments earlier. The philosophical issue is already political, and it was made political by MacKinnon and Dworkin during the Sex Wars in the 80s and 90s.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  What I mean is, most people don't think. They get their philosophy second-hand. So the philosophical ideas of today take decades to affect the thinking of enough people to move the needle of politics. > When a group starts arguing for something you don't like from philosophical principles, you'll regret not addressing their arguments earlier. Absolutely. And yet it is also true that, if you want to move the bulk of people today, you have to start from a point that fits within their existing philosophical framework.