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Back to the front of the pack: Ars reviews Firefox 4

73 points by brianwillis 16y ago

jaybol 16y ago
I've been really happy with Chrome after using Firefox for a long time. I couldn't bear one more Adobe Flash Plugin crash. Has any Chrome user here switched over to Firefox 4 and been pleased with it?
- brianwillis 16y ago
  Tried switching back this morning. I wanted to like it, I really did. But compared to Chrome, Firefox still feels heavy, cluttered, and it doesn't quite mesh with how I feel a browser should work. I realise that these are amorphous and inarticulate reasons for choosing one browser over another, but it's all I've got.
  - bvi 16y ago
    The only thing preventing me from leaving FF to move to Chrome is TabMixPlus (especially multi-layered tabs), considering I regularly have 20-30+ tabs open simultaneously. Scrolling through tabs on Chrome is a very painful experience, and as such, my Chrome experience is limited to occasional moments when FF feels too clunky and needs to be restarted. If there is a Chrome extension that allows this, please let me know, because I've been unable to find one.
    - digitaltothem 16y ago
      I don`t know if this will help, but I am using extension Too Many Tabs for Chrome. Not that it is as awesome as TabMixPlus for FF, but it helps. And there are other similar extensions. I haven`t tried all of them, but here is the link: https://chrome.google.com/extensions/search?q=Tab+mix+Plus https://chrome.google.com/extensions/search?q=Tab+mix+Plus
- superdude 16y ago
  Yes. Running OS X, Firefox is more responsive when opening and switching to new tabs. Maybe the act of creating a new process for each tab slows Chrome down? For example, if I open a new tab in Chrome while I have many already open and then attempt to scroll, the scrolling will lag by a second. I almost never have any lag with Firefox except when first starting the program. Even with an SSD Firefox is more responsive.
- gfodor 16y ago
  Yes, because of pentadactyl.
- alexqgb 16y ago
  Yes. I started using the beta a few months ago, and steadily used Chrome less and less. Now, not at all.
- guelo 16y ago
  If you'd have read the article to the end you would have seen that Firefox now isolates browser plugins so they don't take down the browser with them.
  - skippybosco 16y ago
    With the addition of the FlashBlock plugin (http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://flashblock.mozdev.org/) the chance of those crashes happening drops significantly.
    - swaits 16y ago
      This can be done without a plugin in Chrome. Simply go to about:flags and enable the Click to Play plugins option. This enables an extra option in the prefs under Content Settings IIRC, that allows you to force any, all, or specific plugins to behave this way. Godsend.
  - natmaster 16y ago
    This has been true since 3.6 unless you're on mac.
- jacoblyles 16y ago
  Firefox 4 has a clear lead over all the other browsers in HTML5 support and javascript performance. It is the best release on the market for HTML5 gaming.
  - riffraff 16y ago
    I am fairly sure that is not true, e.g. http://arewefastyet.com/ http://arewefastyet.com/ does not show a clear lead over others, and that is by firefox devs themselves. Notwithstanding real usage, sensible benchmarking, concrete experience etc.. I'm just arguing it is not _clear_.
- aerique 16y ago
  More-or-less. I test drove Chrome for about a month but I cannot live without NoScript support. Besides that I find the browsers to be about equal for what I use them for. This was about 6 months ago. note: I did try NotScripts for Chrome, but it was too limited.
- jakkinabox 16y ago
  On ubuntu, yes. On windows, no. Chrome opens tabs kinda slow on ubuntu for some reason.
ChaseB 16y ago
I love the app tab concept. Just wish the favicon would update and tell me when new mail has arrived.
- abraham 16y ago
  If you are using Gmail that is supported through a labs feature: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-in-labs-unread-message-icon.html http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-in-labs-unread-mes...
  - ChaseB 16y ago
    thanks!
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  Chrome has had that for over a year (nearly two years?) now.
  - iaskwhy 16y ago
    You mean the pinned tab concept? I have no idea who started it but I used to have an extension on Firefox for that even before Chrome existed. Big Chrome fan here though.
  - joakin 16y ago
    Whenever somebody says that they love something about firefox 4 are you going to reply like that? Congrats on chrome, but berfore they did it there already was tab mix plus and faviconize extensions which had this concept. Yeah, everybody copies the good stuff, that's what good about competition. Don't be mean and ironic with useless information on other people's positive comments. Both are great software, there is no need to fight over and be always looking for the fight
    - drivebyacct2 16y ago
      It wasn't meant like that. The comment acted as if it was something new, it's not that hard to read it that way. "I hope this takes off" definitely makes it sound as if it's a brand new feature just coming out or something. It wasn't meant even half as maliciously as you read into it.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
nnutter 16y ago
I'm still debating on whether to use Firefox 4. Both Safari and Chrome seem to exhibit "lock ups" while opening a few tabs or while loading content. Maybe others have experience the same thing?
- superdude 16y ago
  Yes, do you use OS X? I haven't found the issue to be as pronounced in the Windows versions.
  - nnutter 16y ago
    Yes mostly on OS X but maybe also on Linux.
- bvi 16y ago
  Not being snarky, but instead of debating, why don't you try (or "force yourself") to use FF4 for a full day or two before making a decision?
  - nnutter 16y ago
    When I say debating I mean picking the least annoying one after having used all of them at their current version for a few days.
skippybosco 16y ago
I am surprised to see that a restart of the browser is still required to enable / disable extensions and themes in the new FireFox 4. Is this the case with Chrome as well?
- hpaavola 16y ago
  Firefox has also other type of extensions. Jetpack extensions ( https://jetpack.mozillalabs.com/ https://jetpack.mozillalabs.com/ ) which don't require restarts. And there are also "mini themes", called Personas ( http://www.getpersonas.com/en-US/ http://www.getpersonas.com/en-US/ ) which don't require restarts.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- tobylane 16y ago
  Not in anything I've seen, about 50 different extensions including context menus, blockers, all sorts I'd call major.
- mbrubeck 16y ago
  Firefox 4 is the first release to support restartless add-ons: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions/Bootstrapped_extensions https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions/Bootstrapped_ext... Add-ons written in the traditional way will still need a restart, until the authors adapt them to the new bootstrap API. Here are some add-ons that are restartless already: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/tag/restartless https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/tag/restartless
smackay 16y ago
The photo at the start of the article is of a Red Panda, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_panda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_panda, not a fox (of any kind).
- riffraff 16y ago
  that is supposed to be the meaning of "firefox" http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/firefox-name-faq.html http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/firefox-name-faq.htm...
  - smackay 16y ago
    I stand corrected. I guess Fire Panda does not have the same ring to it.
lallysingh 16y ago
I had to wait until the end of the article to see that FF4 is still one monolithic process. Everything else aside, that means I still have to restart it occasionally to get memory back. And the tab-of-death problem remains.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  They do have Flash isolated, which has solved my main "tab of death" issue. However, I'm probably not a good example here, because I haven't had FF crash in months, at least. I honestly can't remember when it did last crash, except that the only ones I can think of involved Flash.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
tobylane 16y ago
It's still the slowest.. Proper tests here http://uk.gizmodo.com/5784454/browser-speed-tests-firefox-4-internet-explorer-9-chrome-11-and-more http://uk.gizmodo.com/5784454/browser-speed-tests-firefox-4-... From what I saw in the arstech article, the graphics are somewhere between bulkly ie8, and super clean Opera. Has any FF user used another browser properly and gone back for something other than extensions? It really does seem to suck from what I see. And now Opera and Safari have a lot of good extensions, FF should be dying out, but it probably won't.
- tobylane 16y ago
  Yey I got downvoted for a link to a test, and a possibly-too-modern but realistic view.
speleding 16y ago
Hmm, "New window" (or option N) doesn't work if the current focus is on a window on my second monitor. Very annoying since that's my browsing screen.
- jfager 16y ago
  That sounds similar to my pet bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632749 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632749
- robin_reala 16y ago
  Just tried that here and I can’t replicate (10.6.6).
  - weaksauce 16y ago
    It's probably only a windows(maybe linux) bug as I cannot replicate it here either. (OS X)
  - speleding 16y ago
    I'm on 10.6.7, perhaps that's why. It is consistent on two Mac Pro's I tried with dual screens, so it should be easy to replicate.
- smackay 16y ago
  All of the popup panels for menu items are displayed erratically with the contents appearing and disappearing as I move over them with the mouse. This only happens on a second monitor under Windows Vista.
ihumanable 16y ago
This update is really very nice. I prefer Chrome over Firefox, but I can't live without Firebug. I know Chrome developer tools are nice and workable but Firebug just seems better to me somehow, may just be familiarity. I've stuck it out with Firefox for a long time so I could continue using my beloved Firebug, but with this new version instead of feeling tethered to an unwieldy behemoth I feel happy in my browser. Congrats to the Firefox team.
focusaurus 16y ago
I am seeing many things copied from Chrome. Reading the article top to bottom: -Tabs above the address bar -1 button for stop/refresh -single star button for bookmarks -transient status bar -manage extensions in a tab -pinning tabs Tab groups, awesome bar, sync, and the privacy features do look awesome though. Will try them out for a while.

73 points by brianwillis 16y ago

I've been really happy with Chrome after using Firefox for a long time. I couldn't bear one more Adobe Flash Plugin crash. Has any Chrome user here switched over to Firefox 4 and been pleased with it?

brianwillis 16y ago
Tried switching back this morning. I wanted to like it, I really did. But compared to Chrome, Firefox still feels heavy, cluttered, and it doesn't quite mesh with how I feel a browser should work. I realise that these are amorphous and inarticulate reasons for choosing one browser over another, but it's all I've got.
- bvi 16y ago
  The only thing preventing me from leaving FF to move to Chrome is TabMixPlus (especially multi-layered tabs), considering I regularly have 20-30+ tabs open simultaneously. Scrolling through tabs on Chrome is a very painful experience, and as such, my Chrome experience is limited to occasional moments when FF feels too clunky and needs to be restarted. If there is a Chrome extension that allows this, please let me know, because I've been unable to find one.
  - digitaltothem 16y ago
    I don`t know if this will help, but I am using extension Too Many Tabs for Chrome. Not that it is as awesome as TabMixPlus for FF, but it helps. And there are other similar extensions. I haven`t tried all of them, but here is the link: https://chrome.google.com/extensions/search?q=Tab+mix+Plus https://chrome.google.com/extensions/search?q=Tab+mix+Plus
superdude 16y ago
Yes. Running OS X, Firefox is more responsive when opening and switching to new tabs. Maybe the act of creating a new process for each tab slows Chrome down? For example, if I open a new tab in Chrome while I have many already open and then attempt to scroll, the scrolling will lag by a second. I almost never have any lag with Firefox except when first starting the program. Even with an SSD Firefox is more responsive.
gfodor 16y ago
Yes, because of pentadactyl.
alexqgb 16y ago
Yes. I started using the beta a few months ago, and steadily used Chrome less and less. Now, not at all.
guelo 16y ago
If you'd have read the article to the end you would have seen that Firefox now isolates browser plugins so they don't take down the browser with them.
- skippybosco 16y ago
  With the addition of the FlashBlock plugin (http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://flashblock.mozdev.org/) the chance of those crashes happening drops significantly.
  - swaits 16y ago
    This can be done without a plugin in Chrome. Simply go to about:flags and enable the Click to Play plugins option. This enables an extra option in the prefs under Content Settings IIRC, that allows you to force any, all, or specific plugins to behave this way. Godsend.
- natmaster 16y ago
  This has been true since 3.6 unless you're on mac.
jacoblyles 16y ago
Firefox 4 has a clear lead over all the other browsers in HTML5 support and javascript performance. It is the best release on the market for HTML5 gaming.
- riffraff 16y ago
  I am fairly sure that is not true, e.g. http://arewefastyet.com/ http://arewefastyet.com/ does not show a clear lead over others, and that is by firefox devs themselves. Notwithstanding real usage, sensible benchmarking, concrete experience etc.. I'm just arguing it is not _clear_.
aerique 16y ago
More-or-less. I test drove Chrome for about a month but I cannot live without NoScript support. Besides that I find the browsers to be about equal for what I use them for. This was about 6 months ago. note: I did try NotScripts for Chrome, but it was too limited.
jakkinabox 16y ago
On ubuntu, yes. On windows, no. Chrome opens tabs kinda slow on ubuntu for some reason.

ChaseB 16y ago

I love the app tab concept. Just wish the favicon would update and tell me when new mail has arrived.

abraham 16y ago
If you are using Gmail that is supported through a labs feature: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-in-labs-unread-message-icon.html http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-in-labs-unread-mes...
- ChaseB 16y ago
  thanks!
drivebyacct2 16y ago
Chrome has had that for over a year (nearly two years?) now.
- iaskwhy 16y ago
  You mean the pinned tab concept? I have no idea who started it but I used to have an extension on Firefox for that even before Chrome existed. Big Chrome fan here though.
- joakin 16y ago
  Whenever somebody says that they love something about firefox 4 are you going to reply like that? Congrats on chrome, but berfore they did it there already was tab mix plus and faviconize extensions which had this concept. Yeah, everybody copies the good stuff, that's what good about competition. Don't be mean and ironic with useless information on other people's positive comments. Both are great software, there is no need to fight over and be always looking for the fight
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    It wasn't meant like that. The comment acted as if it was something new, it's not that hard to read it that way. "I hope this takes off" definitely makes it sound as if it's a brand new feature just coming out or something. It wasn't meant even half as maliciously as you read into it.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

nnutter 16y ago

I'm still debating on whether to use Firefox 4. Both Safari and Chrome seem to exhibit "lock ups" while opening a few tabs or while loading content. Maybe others have experience the same thing?

superdude 16y ago
Yes, do you use OS X? I haven't found the issue to be as pronounced in the Windows versions.
- nnutter 16y ago
  Yes mostly on OS X but maybe also on Linux.
bvi 16y ago
Not being snarky, but instead of debating, why don't you try (or "force yourself") to use FF4 for a full day or two before making a decision?
- nnutter 16y ago
  When I say debating I mean picking the least annoying one after having used all of them at their current version for a few days.

skippybosco 16y ago

I am surprised to see that a restart of the browser is still required to enable / disable extensions and themes in the new FireFox 4. Is this the case with Chrome as well?

hpaavola 16y ago
Firefox has also other type of extensions. Jetpack extensions ( https://jetpack.mozillalabs.com/ https://jetpack.mozillalabs.com/ ) which don't require restarts. And there are also "mini themes", called Personas ( http://www.getpersonas.com/en-US/ http://www.getpersonas.com/en-US/ ) which don't require restarts.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
tobylane 16y ago
Not in anything I've seen, about 50 different extensions including context menus, blockers, all sorts I'd call major.
mbrubeck 16y ago
Firefox 4 is the first release to support restartless add-ons: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions/Bootstrapped_extensions https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Extensions/Bootstrapped_ext... Add-ons written in the traditional way will still need a restart, until the authors adapt them to the new bootstrap API. Here are some add-ons that are restartless already: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/tag/restartless https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/tag/restartless

smackay 16y ago

The photo at the start of the article is of a Red Panda, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_panda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_panda, not a fox (of any kind).

riffraff 16y ago
that is supposed to be the meaning of "firefox" http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/firefox-name-faq.html http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/firefox-name-faq.htm...
- smackay 16y ago
  I stand corrected. I guess Fire Panda does not have the same ring to it.

lallysingh 16y ago

I had to wait until the end of the article to see that FF4 is still one monolithic process. Everything else aside, that means I still have to restart it occasionally to get memory back. And the tab-of-death problem remains.

jokermatt999 16y ago
They do have Flash isolated, which has solved my main "tab of death" issue. However, I'm probably not a good example here, because I haven't had FF crash in months, at least. I honestly can't remember when it did last crash, except that the only ones I can think of involved Flash.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

tobylane 16y ago

It's still the slowest.. Proper tests here http://uk.gizmodo.com/5784454/browser-speed-tests-firefox-4-internet-explorer-9-chrome-11-and-more http://uk.gizmodo.com/5784454/browser-speed-tests-firefox-4-... From what I saw in the arstech article, the graphics are somewhere between bulkly ie8, and super clean Opera. Has any FF user used another browser properly and gone back for something other than extensions? It really does seem to suck from what I see. And now Opera and Safari have a lot of good extensions, FF should be dying out, but it probably won't.

tobylane 16y ago
Yey I got downvoted for a link to a test, and a possibly-too-modern but realistic view.

speleding 16y ago

Hmm, "New window" (or option N) doesn't work if the current focus is on a window on my second monitor. Very annoying since that's my browsing screen.

jfager 16y ago
That sounds similar to my pet bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632749 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632749
robin_reala 16y ago
Just tried that here and I can’t replicate (10.6.6).
- weaksauce 16y ago
  It's probably only a windows(maybe linux) bug as I cannot replicate it here either. (OS X)
- speleding 16y ago
  I'm on 10.6.7, perhaps that's why. It is consistent on two Mac Pro's I tried with dual screens, so it should be easy to replicate.
smackay 16y ago
All of the popup panels for menu items are displayed erratically with the contents appearing and disappearing as I move over them with the mouse. This only happens on a second monitor under Windows Vista.

ihumanable 16y ago

This update is really very nice. I prefer Chrome over Firefox, but I can't live without Firebug. I know Chrome developer tools are nice and workable but Firebug just seems better to me somehow, may just be familiarity. I've stuck it out with Firefox for a long time so I could continue using my beloved Firebug, but with this new version instead of feeling tethered to an unwieldy behemoth I feel happy in my browser. Congrats to the Firefox team.

focusaurus 16y ago

I am seeing many things copied from Chrome. Reading the article top to bottom: -Tabs above the address bar -1 button for stop/refresh -single star button for bookmarks -transient status bar -manage extensions in a tab -pinning tabs Tab groups, awesome bar, sync, and the privacy features do look awesome though. Will try them out for a while.