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From the post: When someone signs up for your product in the App Store, they aren’t technically your customer anymore - they are essentially Apple’s customer.

by nchase 6y ago

From the post: When someone signs up for your product in the App Store, they aren’t technically your customer anymore - they are essentially Apple’s customer. They pay Apple, and Apple then pays you. So that customer you’ve spent years of time, treasure, and reputation earning, is handed over to Apple. And you have to pay Apple 30% for the privilege of doing so! Very true. I think people tend to associate in-app purchases with Apple unless they're very sharp or very motivated to do otherwise. Does anyone think Apple will address this in any form at WWDC next week?

lazyjones 6y ago
What's wrong with that? I trust Apple more to cancel a subscription correctly and stop billing me than most other companies.
- nchase 6y ago
  I think Jason Fried does a good job of explaining what's wrong with it in the post: [...] at Basecamp we help people for all sorts of reasons. We apply credit to accounts for all sorts of reasons. We provide hardship exceptions for all sorts of reasons. We discount our software for teachers. We provide free versions for first responders. We extend trials for those who need more time. We extend payment terms occasionally for those who can’t make ends meet this month. We make exceptions because people are exceptional. We take enormous pride in helping people out. And we’re damn good at it. If we had to push our customers through Apple’s system, we couldn’t do any of that. Apple’s rules prevent us from servicing our customers, yet Apple gives us no choice but to submit to those onerous rules or not be represented on their platform. [...] This reflects my experience as well. If I can help customers with their billing issues, it makes my company look really good – we get an opportunity to provide exceptional customer service. If their subscriptions are managed via Apple, we don't really get that opportunity; instead, we're just one of many apps that can't make exceptions. Apple is far less likely than the company that builds the app to care about the sorts of individual customer reasons for needing a trial extended, account credited, etc, that are mentioned in the article. Yes, lots of companies are bad at customer service. But some are really good! (you can tell by how their customers gush about them.) And with forced in-app purchases, the good ones don't get the opportunity to do their best work.
  - NathanKP 6y ago
    As much as I believe that Basecamp will do the right thing for their customers the harsh reality is that the vast majority of app developers suck and their subscription system will end up looking more like: "We accidentally leak your credit card info. We accidentally double charge you. We refuse to cancel your subscription when you want to because you signed a hidden one year contract." Apple's subscription restriction is optimized to prevent the bad actors in the ecosystem from abusing Apple customers. And unfortunately there are a lot more bad actors in the marketplaces than there are good actors who are trying to do the right thing. If it was a perfect system then yes it would be nice for Apple to allow third parties to have their own subscription systems. But I'd rather be locked into Apple subscriptions than deal with the nefarious and poorly implemented custom subscription systems of the average shovelware app developer.
    - ViViDboarder 6y ago
      Apple has always treated their consumers with kid gloves. As a user, I would like the choice to purchase via Apple and via the developer directly. There are apps and people I trust and there are those I do not. Apple subscriptions would still be valuable for developers that haven’t established trust yet. If an app has a poor subscription system, I just wouldn’t subscribe. That would eventually push them towards Apple or towards a better system. As consumers we are hurt because we don’t get the experience of any subscription services that are better than Apples because the decision is made for us.
- brandon272 6y ago
  If we are talking about trust and customer safety specifically, I love the fact that I can hide behind Apple when buying IAP subscriptions and cancel subscriptions through Apple's interface. Some things I simply would not subscribe to or purchase from a lot of developers because I have no idea who they are and do not trust them. But something seems wrong about classifying all developers as equally untrustworthy and forcing every customer through the same IAP experience. As a customer, I don't believe I'm helped or protected by subscribing to YouTube for a 30% to 40% premium versus what it costs through the YouTube website, just so that I have the ability to cancel my subscription through Apple.

by nchase 6y ago

lazyjones 6y ago

What's wrong with that? I trust Apple more to cancel a subscription correctly and stop billing me than most other companies.

nchase 6y ago
I think Jason Fried does a good job of explaining what's wrong with it in the post: [...] at Basecamp we help people for all sorts of reasons. We apply credit to accounts for all sorts of reasons. We provide hardship exceptions for all sorts of reasons. We discount our software for teachers. We provide free versions for first responders. We extend trials for those who need more time. We extend payment terms occasionally for those who can’t make ends meet this month. We make exceptions because people are exceptional. We take enormous pride in helping people out. And we’re damn good at it. If we had to push our customers through Apple’s system, we couldn’t do any of that. Apple’s rules prevent us from servicing our customers, yet Apple gives us no choice but to submit to those onerous rules or not be represented on their platform. [...] This reflects my experience as well. If I can help customers with their billing issues, it makes my company look really good – we get an opportunity to provide exceptional customer service. If their subscriptions are managed via Apple, we don't really get that opportunity; instead, we're just one of many apps that can't make exceptions. Apple is far less likely than the company that builds the app to care about the sorts of individual customer reasons for needing a trial extended, account credited, etc, that are mentioned in the article. Yes, lots of companies are bad at customer service. But some are really good! (you can tell by how their customers gush about them.) And with forced in-app purchases, the good ones don't get the opportunity to do their best work.
- NathanKP 6y ago
  As much as I believe that Basecamp will do the right thing for their customers the harsh reality is that the vast majority of app developers suck and their subscription system will end up looking more like: "We accidentally leak your credit card info. We accidentally double charge you. We refuse to cancel your subscription when you want to because you signed a hidden one year contract." Apple's subscription restriction is optimized to prevent the bad actors in the ecosystem from abusing Apple customers. And unfortunately there are a lot more bad actors in the marketplaces than there are good actors who are trying to do the right thing. If it was a perfect system then yes it would be nice for Apple to allow third parties to have their own subscription systems. But I'd rather be locked into Apple subscriptions than deal with the nefarious and poorly implemented custom subscription systems of the average shovelware app developer.
  - ViViDboarder 6y ago
    Apple has always treated their consumers with kid gloves. As a user, I would like the choice to purchase via Apple and via the developer directly. There are apps and people I trust and there are those I do not. Apple subscriptions would still be valuable for developers that haven’t established trust yet. If an app has a poor subscription system, I just wouldn’t subscribe. That would eventually push them towards Apple or towards a better system. As consumers we are hurt because we don’t get the experience of any subscription services that are better than Apples because the decision is made for us.
brandon272 6y ago
If we are talking about trust and customer safety specifically, I love the fact that I can hide behind Apple when buying IAP subscriptions and cancel subscriptions through Apple's interface. Some things I simply would not subscribe to or purchase from a lot of developers because I have no idea who they are and do not trust them. But something seems wrong about classifying all developers as equally untrustworthy and forcing every customer through the same IAP experience. As a customer, I don't believe I'm helped or protected by subscribing to YouTube for a 30% to 40% premium versus what it costs through the YouTube website, just so that I have the ability to cancel my subscription through Apple.