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It's weird to see stuff like this published as a "paper", as if it were a scientific endeavour, when there doesn't seem to be any experiment, mathematics, or ev

It's weird to see stuff like this published as a "paper", as if it were a scientific endeavour, when there doesn't seem to be any experiment, mathematics, or even data involved. Just a lot of conjecture sprinkled with citations. It seems like the epitome of Feynman's cargo cult science. I'm actually very sympathetic with the idea being advanced, I'm just not sure what really separates this and a blog post.

antognini 6y ago
Historians write papers. As do philosophers and classicists. There are papers in literary criticism, law, music theory, and theology, and none of them have experiments, mathematics, or data (at least in the scientific sense of the word). I don't think that makes those endeavors invalid. The difference between an academic paper and a blog post is that an academic paper needs to fit into the context of the academic literature through its format (particularly through citation of prior work), and it needs to undergo some form of peer review. None of that is any guarantee of quality, of course. There are lots of terrible academic papers and lots of excellent blog posts. But you don't need to be a scientist to write an academic paper.
- autokad 6y ago
  But this is economics, not music theory. And while a history paper titled 'Hitler did not start world war 2' may not have any data to back up its claim, if it didn't then it wouldn't be a very good one.
  - deleted 6y ago
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deleted 6y ago
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talentedcoin 6y ago
A paper needs an idea that is well-thought-out and well-cited. Outside of math or the natural sciences, it does not need experiments, mathematics, or data.
- PeeInTheData 6y ago
  Fields outside of those are either just note taking (history), subjective (music), or just nonsense (sociology, anything that ends in “studies”).
- rini17 6y ago
  If you label one sector of economy as harmful and another one as beneficial, why not use actual data to support your claim? Unlike thesis like "goto considered harmful" there are enough data out there. Authors even mention the actual size of the untrepreneurial industry in $, but don't dig any further.
  - talentedcoin 6y ago
    Yeah, I tend to agree with you there. I get the impression that was just more work, or not the focus of this specific paper. For what it's worth, they do say > Rather, we seek to provide a description of a subset of the population of ventures which appear to be growth-oriented entrepreneurship but on closer inspection are not. The exact size of this sub-set is a matter for further empirical study. So, I'm looking forward to the follow up I guess :)
dang 6y ago
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Reflexive, generic comments are much more boring to read than they are to write, and they take threads in uninteresting directions. With a submission like this, if you don't find something to engage with in the article, there are lots of other things to read on HN's front page.
rmrfstar 6y ago
I haven't read this paper, but... What separates a good paper from a blog post is the attention it devotes to second and third order consequences, its discussion and dismissal of likely counter-arguments, and the author's framing of the new idea in the context of existing literature. This is true for social science papers and law-review articles as much as it is true for machine learning and engineering papers. These are the hallmarks of careful analysis that are generally lacking in hot-take blog posts.

antognini 6y ago

Historians write papers. As do philosophers and classicists. There are papers in literary criticism, law, music theory, and theology, and none of them have experiments, mathematics, or data (at least in the scientific sense of the word). I don't think that makes those endeavors invalid. The difference between an academic paper and a blog post is that an academic paper needs to fit into the context of the academic literature through its format (particularly through citation of prior work), and it needs to undergo some form of peer review. None of that is any guarantee of quality, of course. There are lots of terrible academic papers and lots of excellent blog posts. But you don't need to be a scientist to write an academic paper.

autokad 6y ago
But this is economics, not music theory. And while a history paper titled 'Hitler did not start world war 2' may not have any data to back up its claim, if it didn't then it wouldn't be a very good one.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

talentedcoin 6y ago

A paper needs an idea that is well-thought-out and well-cited. Outside of math or the natural sciences, it does not need experiments, mathematics, or data.

PeeInTheData 6y ago
Fields outside of those are either just note taking (history), subjective (music), or just nonsense (sociology, anything that ends in “studies”).
rini17 6y ago
If you label one sector of economy as harmful and another one as beneficial, why not use actual data to support your claim? Unlike thesis like "goto considered harmful" there are enough data out there. Authors even mention the actual size of the untrepreneurial industry in $, but don't dig any further.
- talentedcoin 6y ago
  Yeah, I tend to agree with you there. I get the impression that was just more work, or not the focus of this specific paper. For what it's worth, they do say > Rather, we seek to provide a description of a subset of the population of ventures which appear to be growth-oriented entrepreneurship but on closer inspection are not. The exact size of this sub-set is a matter for further empirical study. So, I'm looking forward to the follow up I guess :)

dang 6y ago

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Reflexive, generic comments are much more boring to read than they are to write, and they take threads in uninteresting directions. With a submission like this, if you don't find something to engage with in the article, there are lots of other things to read on HN's front page.

rmrfstar 6y ago

I haven't read this paper, but... What separates a good paper from a blog post is the attention it devotes to second and third order consequences, its discussion and dismissal of likely counter-arguments, and the author's framing of the new idea in the context of existing literature. This is true for social science papers and law-review articles as much as it is true for machine learning and engineering papers. These are the hallmarks of careful analysis that are generally lacking in hot-take blog posts.