5 ms·

Visualizing the Ongoing Drug War

40 points by dumbfoundded 6y ago

c54 6y ago
I tried to click the links towards the bottom for eg Norml but the animation populating more ppl in jail kept moving the links around so I closed the tab. This was on iOS Safari
- justwalt 6y ago
  Same for me, I tried to click on the animation to pause it but to no avail.
  - dumbfoundded 6y ago
    Good feedback, I'll add something for that.
- thiagocsf 6y ago
  Tried reading on mobile (iOS) and gave up because I had to keep scrolling to keep up with the animation pushing the text down.
emsy 6y ago
This is a neat visualization, I wonder if this is more persuasive than written numbers of users and money. I just think it should use some sort of chunking to avoid breaking the page flow. On another note, I’m from Germany and here there is absolutely no motion from the government towards legalization. Instead they double down on their failed and regressive prohibition, while still being mostly ignorant towards the dangers of alcohol. This is odd, since not only do more and more countries in the EU decriminalize or legalize weed/drugs but they do so successfully with regards to users, protection of youth and taxes (where it applies). At least the US is moving in the right direction with regards to weed, albeit slowly.
- etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
  I think this (and others) pokes holes in the theory that drug laws are predominantly about racism, or predominantly because of U.S. pressure. (It's doubly true for countries that are abject enemies of the U.S., which also generally have strict drug laws.) Maybe it's pretty simple: the actual majority of the population is in favor of these laws (at least in some countries). I just don't see a conspiracy here.
  - atlasunshrugged 6y ago
    I think there's probably a substantial difference for harsh laws on drugs depending on the drug - ex. I would bet most people believe that heroin or meth should be illegal, but far fewer people would think that about marijuana. Pew study (link below) says 2/3rds of Americans think pot should be legal https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/14/americans-support-marijuana-legalization/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/14/americans-s...
    - etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
      What about the __thousands__ of actual drugs that exist, on a wide spectrum of potential harm in-between marijuana and meth/heroin? Trying to legislate this in some kind of fair manner is not a simple issue at all. If you just decriminalize everything for personal use... you still have a black market, you still ruin people's lives for being involved in the black market, and you still have a drug war.
- atlasunshrugged 6y ago
  Maybe they're not ignorant but the alcohol companies have a much stronger lobbying arm and more connections/acceptance with the audience of lawmakers who are the key decision makers on this than cannabis smokers/companies do?
  - edoceo 6y ago
    And taxes. Booze is a good revenue stream for the Gov. And in regulated US states. It's why both booze and weed got "essential" business status in those places. Where the weed industry is getting more lobbying, well, the effects on laws are clear (that is the lobbying is working to change laws to help (some) of the pot business.
zests 6y ago
I support the decriminalization of all drugs from both a libertarian and humanitarian perspective. That being said, the numbers geek inside of me always hates how out of context statistics usually are. For instance, how do these rates compare to other drugs or other crimes? How do you determine whether or not there is similar drug usage across populations? (The answer is to claim that an equal number of people who have used at least once in the past year implies equal usage over the past year. Another frustrating use of numbers.) But none of this really matters. Its a no-brainer. The war on drugs doesn't work. The real problem in my opinion is that people who don't use drugs usually have no reason to do anything about it. Decriminalize everything.
- dumbfoundded 6y ago
  I tried to keep these numbers within the context of cannabis. The 663K arrests in 2018 refer to cannabis only related arrests. The ACLU mentions how cannabis use is approximately equivalent between white and black people: https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/item/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/item/racial-disparit... Frequency is a hard one and can be muddled a bit. There isn't great data on the frequency or quality of usage of racial differences.
rebuilder 6y ago
I wish they hadn't chosen colour schemes that seem intended to bias the reading. In the first infographic, white characters are very low-contrast while brown characters stand out. In the other, both seem to be about equal in terms of contrast. That said, I'm not sure how to get this kind of presentation right, since the "white" population is not the same size as the "black" or "brown" population. They say a black person is almost four times as likely to be arrested for drug offenses as a white person. While I think their graphic seems a bit manipulative, at the same time it doesn't seem to capture the real awfulness of the situation. Non-Hispanic whites are something like 60% of the US population, while black people account for 13%, so just showing drug arrests by skin colour paints a very rosy picture of the actual situation. My suggestion, normalize contrasts and weight the number of characters by demographics. It'd be pretty shocking and would avoid this odd whiff of dishonesty.
- dumbfoundded 6y ago
  The first graphic is racially biased according to the arrest rates. The second graphic simply is based on overall population demographics. My intention was to be able to visually see the difference between consumers and arrests.
mam2 6y ago
How many people here, ACTUALLY think cannabis is "completely not harmful" ? I'm all about making your own choices and i've tried most drugs on the planet, probably more than you dear reader, and totally assume the potential risks. but still most people I know who do cannabis regularly either: - Have scary memory problems. - Have autodestructive or at least exagerated "passive" tendencies toward improving in any way you want to define it. - Have similar friends who definetely drag them down and not up. I literally know NO ONE i would admire that do it. And please don't say Elon Musk who's the most famously unbalanced CEO on the planet. I don't understand the push of legal cannabis because i don't want my children to think it's risk-free to do it. The danger of drugs is always the frequencies you do them. Hopefully it stays contained to the US.
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  I think most people would say that it is less harmful than other drugs which we already accept as a society. The other argument would be that the costs of keeping it illegal are much higher than the benefits. These both seem like good arguments for legalization even if you accept that usage has risks for some people.
  - mam2 6y ago
    This is an anti cigaret argument, not pro cannabis. Im not sure the money argument is really a matter on wether we want our children to think its legal and ok.
- dumbfoundded 6y ago
  Cannabis certainly has negative side effects but these pale in comparison to the effects of prohibition. From a physical standpoint, the negative effects of cannabis are far less severe than smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol. We should put the money used for policing into community building and health services so people feel less inclined to use drugs of any kind.
  - mam2 6y ago
    > From a physical standpoint, the negative effects of cannabis are far less severe than smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol. Thats an argument against cigaret, not pro cannabis. Yes for the money but still do we reeeealy want it legal ?
trinicoinmaster 6y ago
I live in Trinidad where the Drug war is real. Weed just became legal but we are major transshipment point for cocaine. It rough sometimes with all this gang war.

40 points by dumbfoundded 6y ago

c54 6y ago

I tried to click the links towards the bottom for eg Norml but the animation populating more ppl in jail kept moving the links around so I closed the tab. This was on iOS Safari

justwalt 6y ago
Same for me, I tried to click on the animation to pause it but to no avail.
- dumbfoundded 6y ago
  Good feedback, I'll add something for that.
thiagocsf 6y ago
Tried reading on mobile (iOS) and gave up because I had to keep scrolling to keep up with the animation pushing the text down.

emsy 6y ago

This is a neat visualization, I wonder if this is more persuasive than written numbers of users and money. I just think it should use some sort of chunking to avoid breaking the page flow. On another note, I’m from Germany and here there is absolutely no motion from the government towards legalization. Instead they double down on their failed and regressive prohibition, while still being mostly ignorant towards the dangers of alcohol. This is odd, since not only do more and more countries in the EU decriminalize or legalize weed/drugs but they do so successfully with regards to users, protection of youth and taxes (where it applies). At least the US is moving in the right direction with regards to weed, albeit slowly.

etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
I think this (and others) pokes holes in the theory that drug laws are predominantly about racism, or predominantly because of U.S. pressure. (It's doubly true for countries that are abject enemies of the U.S., which also generally have strict drug laws.) Maybe it's pretty simple: the actual majority of the population is in favor of these laws (at least in some countries). I just don't see a conspiracy here.
- atlasunshrugged 6y ago
  I think there's probably a substantial difference for harsh laws on drugs depending on the drug - ex. I would bet most people believe that heroin or meth should be illegal, but far fewer people would think that about marijuana. Pew study (link below) says 2/3rds of Americans think pot should be legal https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/14/americans-support-marijuana-legalization/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/14/americans-s...
  - etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
    What about the __thousands__ of actual drugs that exist, on a wide spectrum of potential harm in-between marijuana and meth/heroin? Trying to legislate this in some kind of fair manner is not a simple issue at all. If you just decriminalize everything for personal use... you still have a black market, you still ruin people's lives for being involved in the black market, and you still have a drug war.
atlasunshrugged 6y ago
Maybe they're not ignorant but the alcohol companies have a much stronger lobbying arm and more connections/acceptance with the audience of lawmakers who are the key decision makers on this than cannabis smokers/companies do?
- edoceo 6y ago
  And taxes. Booze is a good revenue stream for the Gov. And in regulated US states. It's why both booze and weed got "essential" business status in those places. Where the weed industry is getting more lobbying, well, the effects on laws are clear (that is the lobbying is working to change laws to help (some) of the pot business.

zests 6y ago

I support the decriminalization of all drugs from both a libertarian and humanitarian perspective. That being said, the numbers geek inside of me always hates how out of context statistics usually are. For instance, how do these rates compare to other drugs or other crimes? How do you determine whether or not there is similar drug usage across populations? (The answer is to claim that an equal number of people who have used at least once in the past year implies equal usage over the past year. Another frustrating use of numbers.) But none of this really matters. Its a no-brainer. The war on drugs doesn't work. The real problem in my opinion is that people who don't use drugs usually have no reason to do anything about it. Decriminalize everything.

dumbfoundded 6y ago
I tried to keep these numbers within the context of cannabis. The 663K arrests in 2018 refer to cannabis only related arrests. The ACLU mentions how cannabis use is approximately equivalent between white and black people: https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/item/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/item/racial-disparit... Frequency is a hard one and can be muddled a bit. There isn't great data on the frequency or quality of usage of racial differences.

rebuilder 6y ago

I wish they hadn't chosen colour schemes that seem intended to bias the reading. In the first infographic, white characters are very low-contrast while brown characters stand out. In the other, both seem to be about equal in terms of contrast. That said, I'm not sure how to get this kind of presentation right, since the "white" population is not the same size as the "black" or "brown" population. They say a black person is almost four times as likely to be arrested for drug offenses as a white person. While I think their graphic seems a bit manipulative, at the same time it doesn't seem to capture the real awfulness of the situation. Non-Hispanic whites are something like 60% of the US population, while black people account for 13%, so just showing drug arrests by skin colour paints a very rosy picture of the actual situation. My suggestion, normalize contrasts and weight the number of characters by demographics. It'd be pretty shocking and would avoid this odd whiff of dishonesty.

dumbfoundded 6y ago
The first graphic is racially biased according to the arrest rates. The second graphic simply is based on overall population demographics. My intention was to be able to visually see the difference between consumers and arrests.

mam2 6y ago

How many people here, ACTUALLY think cannabis is "completely not harmful" ? I'm all about making your own choices and i've tried most drugs on the planet, probably more than you dear reader, and totally assume the potential risks. but still most people I know who do cannabis regularly either: - Have scary memory problems. - Have autodestructive or at least exagerated "passive" tendencies toward improving in any way you want to define it. - Have similar friends who definetely drag them down and not up. I literally know NO ONE i would admire that do it. And please don't say Elon Musk who's the most famously unbalanced CEO on the planet. I don't understand the push of legal cannabis because i don't want my children to think it's risk-free to do it. The danger of drugs is always the frequencies you do them. Hopefully it stays contained to the US.

amanaplanacanal 6y ago
I think most people would say that it is less harmful than other drugs which we already accept as a society. The other argument would be that the costs of keeping it illegal are much higher than the benefits. These both seem like good arguments for legalization even if you accept that usage has risks for some people.
- mam2 6y ago
  This is an anti cigaret argument, not pro cannabis. Im not sure the money argument is really a matter on wether we want our children to think its legal and ok.
dumbfoundded 6y ago
Cannabis certainly has negative side effects but these pale in comparison to the effects of prohibition. From a physical standpoint, the negative effects of cannabis are far less severe than smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol. We should put the money used for policing into community building and health services so people feel less inclined to use drugs of any kind.
- mam2 6y ago
  > From a physical standpoint, the negative effects of cannabis are far less severe than smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol. Thats an argument against cigaret, not pro cannabis. Yes for the money but still do we reeeealy want it legal ?

trinicoinmaster 6y ago

I live in Trinidad where the Drug war is real. Weed just became legal but we are major transshipment point for cocaine. It rough sometimes with all this gang war.