7 ms·

Exactly, people forget that Valve developed SteamOS after Microsoft's shenanigans, when they tried to lockout 3rd party programs i.e. build it's own "app store"

by slezyr 6y ago

skocznymroczny 6y ago
Valve, the company that almost holds a monopoly on the PC games distribution.
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  Epic Game Store and Xbox Game Store for PC are making headway. Epic just gave away amazing games for a month or two. I got GTA5 and Civ6 for free amongst other treasures.
  - Kaze404 6y ago
    It's worth noting that Epic Games isn't really making headway into the market by providing innovation. They're just dumping money into it, making everything worse for Linux users.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      Linux is making everything worse for Linux gamers... The packaging story, the driver stories, the market share... The stores don't lose anything when a developer supports Linux, Epic's own engine supports Linux as a target The problem is the support costs don't seem to add up at all, and I fail to see why the store fronts would be to blame...
      - Kaze404 6y ago
        Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. At least not any more than I did when I used Windows. Steam has been providing support for the Linux community for years, through native ports of their games, explicitly selling Linux ports on their store, and just making sure their client works on Linux as well. This isn't to mention their actual innovations such as the Steam Controller, Steam In-home Streaming, Steam Remote Play, and even Proton. In contrast, we have Epic Games who, besides adding nothing to the market besides a bunch of free games (which is likely going to end when/if they feel like they have a good enough share), actively killed the Linux version of Rocket League when they purchased the game. I appreciate Epic Games for the Unreal engine, but if this is how they want to get a share of the PC game store market, they're not getting a dime from me.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        > Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. Yes, really. This just sounds like the standard Linux Desktop evangelist "Works for me! (TM)". Take this case [0], where in it is claimed that support requests for Linux were vastly disproportionate to the number of Linux users. Linux has huge problems as a platform due to its fragmentary and ever-changing nature combined with its near-total disregard (in userland) for backwards compatibility. People have been screaming this at the community for the better part of a decade and a half (including Linus himself!) and mostly falling on deaf ears. Which is not to say that one should support Epic if you do happen to care about gaming on Linux. Quite the opposite, as Valve has done more than anyone[1] to try and make it work. [0] https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 [1] With the exception of the entire WINE project in general
        Kaze404 6y ago
        I agree. Linux definitely has a long way before it's usable for the majority of the public for gaming. I only wanted to point that out because the myth that Linux can't play games still exists for some reason, while I'm sitting here playing every game that I want (except for those with rootkit anti-cheats. I have a VM for them).
        BoorishBears 6y ago
        Where in my comment do I say Linux can't play games? My comment literally doesn't make sense _unless_ linux can play games "Linux definitely has a long way before it's usable for the majority of the public for gaming", is the crux of my comment. Linux users on here just get very defensive when you bring up very obvious shortcomings and immediately go into "it's not that bad"-mode
        pjmlp 6y ago
        A very loooong way, hence why game studios rather target Android instead, and using the NDK is anything but fun.
        6y ago
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      With its drive for fragmentation, even with a gaming distribution like SteamOS, Linux gaming community keeps changing between 1 and 2%. No one is betting their business in such tiny communities, while having exponential costs in development and dealing with very vocal and entitled gamers. So naturally a couple of studios test waters, and then they just target Android instead.
      - Kaze404 6y ago
        Do you have a source for Linux users being "very vocal and entitled"? Someone linked this Twitter thread here and, while they ultimately chose to stop supporting Linux, the picture painted of Linux users is very different from what you describe. https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760
        pjmlp 6y ago
        Really? Is that so hard to find? https://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/topic/3409 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/topic/3409 https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/1223457395419930627?s=20 https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/1223457395419930627...
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    It's ironic to watch non-technical gamers hoot and holler about how evil Epic is while they pour millions into a world class engine for devs, and build out the first "full house" competitor to Steam (meaning they include free unlimited backend services in addition to the store front)
    - kuzimoto 6y ago
      Can you enlighten me on why people think Epic is evil? I just haven't really kept up with news about them.
      - cjenkins 6y ago
        There has been controversy around them paying third party developers to release their game exclusively through Epic Games Store. From what I recall these are timed exclusives so the games do eventually end up on other store fronts but people seem to be really up in arms about it.
      - teddyh 6y ago
        As I understand it, people were mad at Epic when many game projects on Kickstarter, formerly announced and crowd-sponsored as multi-platform, were suddenly funded by Epic and changed to be exclusives on Epic. Many people viewed this as a breach of trust by the projects, and as even worse done by Epic, by prompting and encouraging this.
      - erikw 6y ago
        I think more competition in this space is great, and overall we'll all benefit. However, notice that when you open up Steam, the default view is your library of games, whereas when you open the Epic Games Launcher, your default view is the store. This suggests to me that BD folks are running the show, rather than folks who are interested in games. Valve has spent the better part of the last 20 years proving that they generally make decisions for Steam that put gamers first- enough so to convince me, a dedicated FOSS and free culture supporter to pay for DRMed games. I've also purchased a game from the Epic Game Store, and while the experience wasn't as good (the Epic Games Launcher is pretty half-baked software), I expect them to iterate and improve it, unlike EA's Origin software which is almost comically broken.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    I was all up for Civ6. Except they didn't release Civ 6, they released a windows version of Civ6. Steam however sells me Civ6 which works, which costs about £3,000 (£15 for the game, £3,000 for the lost time I know it will cost me if I install it)
  - monadic2 6y ago
    I don’t think either of those run on Linux.... did you mean “windows” rather than “pc”?
- Kye 6y ago
  I'm hopeful the success of Itch.io's latest bundle will help get more people to look outside Steam. https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality $8 million isn't much next to Steam, but it's a lot in a world where Steam is the default when people think of PC game stores.
- pteraspidomorph 6y ago
  While it's true that Steam has a lot of critical mass, there are several viable alternatives for distribution in a vacuum (whether publishers and developers use them or not doesn't mean they aren't there). In addition to the EGS and Itch you also have GOG (which has a huge catalogue and is highly curated), and the Humble Store is still around even though sadly it has mostly become a Steam storefront these days. Add to that other publisher-specific distribution platforms and the landscape is hardly as bereft of choice as the smartphone/tablet app distribution ecossystem. Note: I do wish all of these people's official clients supported Linux.
- lghh 6y ago
  They have a huge marketshare, but I don't see how they have a monopoly. For example, some of the largest games in the world don't go through Steam (Fortnite, Overwatch, LoL) and the indie scene outside of Steam is popular and successful through DRM free or 3rd party sources such as GoG, Humble, and itch.io. I can download a .exe from a publisher's website if I really want to. How is that "almost ... a monopoly"?
  - learc83 6y ago
    The indie scene outside of Steam might arguably be called popular, but if revenue is a marker success, it certainly isn't successful.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Valve, the least anti-competitive monopoly[0] I can think of. You can sell keys that work on their platform on other stores without giving them a cut. [0] If one accepts that label

Exactly, people forget that Valve developed SteamOS after Microsoft's shenanigans, when they tried to lockout 3rd party programs i.e. build it's own "app store"

by slezyr 6y ago

Exactly, people forget that Valve developed SteamOS after Microsoft's shenanigans, when they tried to lockout 3rd party programs i.e. build it's own "app store"

skocznymroczny 6y ago

Valve, the company that almost holds a monopoly on the PC games distribution.

godzillabrennus 6y ago
Epic Game Store and Xbox Game Store for PC are making headway. Epic just gave away amazing games for a month or two. I got GTA5 and Civ6 for free amongst other treasures.
- Kaze404 6y ago
  It's worth noting that Epic Games isn't really making headway into the market by providing innovation. They're just dumping money into it, making everything worse for Linux users.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    Linux is making everything worse for Linux gamers... The packaging story, the driver stories, the market share... The stores don't lose anything when a developer supports Linux, Epic's own engine supports Linux as a target The problem is the support costs don't seem to add up at all, and I fail to see why the store fronts would be to blame...
    - Kaze404 6y ago
      Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. At least not any more than I did when I used Windows. Steam has been providing support for the Linux community for years, through native ports of their games, explicitly selling Linux ports on their store, and just making sure their client works on Linux as well. This isn't to mention their actual innovations such as the Steam Controller, Steam In-home Streaming, Steam Remote Play, and even Proton. In contrast, we have Epic Games who, besides adding nothing to the market besides a bunch of free games (which is likely going to end when/if they feel like they have a good enough share), actively killed the Linux version of Rocket League when they purchased the game. I appreciate Epic Games for the Unreal engine, but if this is how they want to get a share of the PC game store market, they're not getting a dime from me.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        > Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. Yes, really. This just sounds like the standard Linux Desktop evangelist "Works for me! (TM)". Take this case [0], where in it is claimed that support requests for Linux were vastly disproportionate to the number of Linux users. Linux has huge problems as a platform due to its fragmentary and ever-changing nature combined with its near-total disregard (in userland) for backwards compatibility. People have been screaming this at the community for the better part of a decade and a half (including Linus himself!) and mostly falling on deaf ears. Which is not to say that one should support Epic if you do happen to care about gaming on Linux. Quite the opposite, as Valve has done more than anyone[1] to try and make it work. [0] https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 [1] With the exception of the entire WINE project in general
        Kaze404 6y ago
        I agree. Linux definitely has a long way before it's usable for the majority of the public for gaming. I only wanted to point that out because the myth that Linux can't play games still exists for some reason, while I'm sitting here playing every game that I want (except for those with rootkit anti-cheats. I have a VM for them).
        BoorishBears 6y ago
        Where in my comment do I say Linux can't play games? My comment literally doesn't make sense _unless_ linux can play games "Linux definitely has a long way before it's usable for the majority of the public for gaming", is the crux of my comment. Linux users on here just get very defensive when you bring up very obvious shortcomings and immediately go into "it's not that bad"-mode
        pjmlp 6y ago
        A very loooong way, hence why game studios rather target Android instead, and using the NDK is anything but fun.
        6y ago
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    With its drive for fragmentation, even with a gaming distribution like SteamOS, Linux gaming community keeps changing between 1 and 2%. No one is betting their business in such tiny communities, while having exponential costs in development and dealing with very vocal and entitled gamers. So naturally a couple of studios test waters, and then they just target Android instead.
    - Kaze404 6y ago
      Do you have a source for Linux users being "very vocal and entitled"? Someone linked this Twitter thread here and, while they ultimately chose to stop supporting Linux, the picture painted of Linux users is very different from what you describe. https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Really? Is that so hard to find? https://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/topic/3409 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/topic/3409 https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/1223457395419930627?s=20 https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/1223457395419930627...
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  It's ironic to watch non-technical gamers hoot and holler about how evil Epic is while they pour millions into a world class engine for devs, and build out the first "full house" competitor to Steam (meaning they include free unlimited backend services in addition to the store front)
  - kuzimoto 6y ago
    Can you enlighten me on why people think Epic is evil? I just haven't really kept up with news about them.
    - cjenkins 6y ago
      There has been controversy around them paying third party developers to release their game exclusively through Epic Games Store. From what I recall these are timed exclusives so the games do eventually end up on other store fronts but people seem to be really up in arms about it.
    - teddyh 6y ago
      As I understand it, people were mad at Epic when many game projects on Kickstarter, formerly announced and crowd-sponsored as multi-platform, were suddenly funded by Epic and changed to be exclusives on Epic. Many people viewed this as a breach of trust by the projects, and as even worse done by Epic, by prompting and encouraging this.
    - erikw 6y ago
      I think more competition in this space is great, and overall we'll all benefit. However, notice that when you open up Steam, the default view is your library of games, whereas when you open the Epic Games Launcher, your default view is the store. This suggests to me that BD folks are running the show, rather than folks who are interested in games. Valve has spent the better part of the last 20 years proving that they generally make decisions for Steam that put gamers first- enough so to convince me, a dedicated FOSS and free culture supporter to pay for DRMed games. I've also purchased a game from the Epic Game Store, and while the experience wasn't as good (the Epic Games Launcher is pretty half-baked software), I expect them to iterate and improve it, unlike EA's Origin software which is almost comically broken.
- iso1631 6y ago
  I was all up for Civ6. Except they didn't release Civ 6, they released a windows version of Civ6. Steam however sells me Civ6 which works, which costs about £3,000 (£15 for the game, £3,000 for the lost time I know it will cost me if I install it)
- monadic2 6y ago
  I don’t think either of those run on Linux.... did you mean “windows” rather than “pc”?
Kye 6y ago
I'm hopeful the success of Itch.io's latest bundle will help get more people to look outside Steam. https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality $8 million isn't much next to Steam, but it's a lot in a world where Steam is the default when people think of PC game stores.
pteraspidomorph 6y ago
While it's true that Steam has a lot of critical mass, there are several viable alternatives for distribution in a vacuum (whether publishers and developers use them or not doesn't mean they aren't there). In addition to the EGS and Itch you also have GOG (which has a huge catalogue and is highly curated), and the Humble Store is still around even though sadly it has mostly become a Steam storefront these days. Add to that other publisher-specific distribution platforms and the landscape is hardly as bereft of choice as the smartphone/tablet app distribution ecossystem. Note: I do wish all of these people's official clients supported Linux.
lghh 6y ago
They have a huge marketshare, but I don't see how they have a monopoly. For example, some of the largest games in the world don't go through Steam (Fortnite, Overwatch, LoL) and the indie scene outside of Steam is popular and successful through DRM free or 3rd party sources such as GoG, Humble, and itch.io. I can download a .exe from a publisher's website if I really want to. How is that "almost ... a monopoly"?
- learc83 6y ago
  The indie scene outside of Steam might arguably be called popular, but if revenue is a marker success, it certainly isn't successful.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
Valve, the least anti-competitive monopoly[0] I can think of. You can sell keys that work on their platform on other stores without giving them a cut. [0] If one accepts that label