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I think Tim Cook and Apple made the correct decision. I own an Oculus Quest, which is fairly light weight and totally self contained while my Brother owns a mo

I think Tim Cook and Apple made the correct decision. I own an Oculus Quest, which is fairly light weight and totally self contained while my Brother owns a more capable Oculus device that is tethered to his gaming PC. I use my Quest many times a day, often for just a few minutes at a time. It is so easy to get up from my desk, and jump into a ping pong game, enjoy a favorite part of Vader Immortal, randomly try a VR art piece, etc., etc. I don’t want to spend huge amounts of time on the quest, rather to just use it the way I would take a walk or a hike. I love the Oculus Quest, and if Apple sells something better with good content, then I am all in.

zitterbewegung 6y ago
Swapping out the SOC from an Oculus quest to an a13 or higher would be extremely compelling for me to buy. Other than ease of use Oculus Quest the price point (sub 500) might be another factor but OTOH I don't think that's a big factor if its an apple product.
- whatch 6y ago
  > Swapping out the SOC from an Oculus quest to an a13 or higher would be extremely compelling for me to buy. I agree, but I believe the battery will need upgrade as well
  - entropicdrifter 6y ago
    It might help the balance of the system to put the battery at the back of the headband, like this: https://uploadvr.com/vr-power-battery-quest/ https://uploadvr.com/vr-power-battery-quest/
xwdv 6y ago
Agreed, since picking up a Quest my use of tethered VR has dropped significantly. Self contained VR is the way forward IMO. I would only use tethered VR for seated simulations such as flight or racing, which would typically use more peripherals anyway.
- bserge 6y ago
  Doesn't even need to be self-contained if you use simple streaming over Wifi.
  - pdehaan 6y ago
    If the machine doing the streaming is on the local network maybe. VR is not a forgiving environment for latency. If your target 72fps (Quest), about 862 miles is an upper bound for distance. That's just to get data round-trip at fiber speed, additional latency sources (wifi, rendering, encoding, wifi again) are going to make things worse. Prediction and "timewarp" only get you so far. I'm all for wireless headsets to eliminate the tether when using a PC, but to me the Quest is compelling primarily because it's standalone. I can bring it almost anywhere (empty warehouse, a large field outside, hotel rooms) and not need to worry about lugging a bunch of extra gear. It's also really compelling for quick product demos if that's your thing. We can keep builds of software installed on a headset that can go from packed in a small hard-case to ready to show off in about the time it takes to boot.
ngokevin 6y ago
That's interesting, I think a lot of people may use their Quest a lot often because of that hurdle to put on the headset (or charge batteries, etc). This is sort of a self-plug, but we're experimenting with the idea of an app that has a comic reader, book reader, Reddit client, art viewer, video player syncing/streaming from a desktop, if you are interested in trying builds. We sort of looked to build the same thing, something you use a little bit everyday because it's better than tiny screens. And I think as usual, Apple may be what will make VR mainstream, and that'll take quite some time given their AR/Glass focus.
- DagAgren 6y ago
  > we're experimenting with the idea of an app that has a comic reader, book reader, Reddit client, art viewer, video player Why? I have all of those on my computer without strapping anything to my head.
  - dmarcos 6y ago
    You could potentially always have with you as many displays you want to whatever size you prefer and use them wherever you like: desk, couch, laying in bed... VR / AR Headsets can be a more convenient and comfortable replacement for traditional displays and desk setups. [edit] typo
    - DagAgren 6y ago
      Yeah, but all the things mentioned are things that require my full attention for longer spans of time. I don't need separate displays for them, I need one single good display.
      - dmarcos 6y ago
        A VR headset can also give you a single good display on demand. What about reading a 100” mural scale comic book while laying down in bed?
        6y ago
jayd16 6y ago
Hmm but the article does say it could operate in a stand alone mode. It sounds pretty similar to the Quest but it could only tether to some special unit and not a Mac?
- mark_l_watson 6y ago
  Well, an Internet connection is required for the Quest since you do everything in the environment like buying content (but there is a ton of good free content in many genres). Once content is on the device, you don’t need an Internet connection (I sent an Oculus Go to my grandson, he can load it up and then use it at sea on the Coast Guard cutter he is assigned to). Apple’s device(s) should be the same.
michaelbuckbee 6y ago
Conceptually this breaks along really similar lines to PC Gaming vs Console/Set-Top Boxes (Roku, or similar). I've similarly seen much more usage of the Quest from non-technical people as it's much less intimidating to get going.
- mark_l_watson 6y ago
  I co-setup the SAIC VR Lab about 25 years ago, and I literally spent months buying gear, setting it up, and integrating the good stuff into our lab. We engineered full on motion platforms, haptics feedback, and used SGI Reality Engines. But yes, I do like the easy experience of using the Quest. I expect Apple’s gear to be similarly easy to enjoy.
skellera 6y ago
A lot of people seemed to miss the part that the hub would connect wirelessly. You could still do that. Just plugging in something in the same room is not that much more difficult. I personally would’ve preferred higher graphics. I love my quest but there needs to be a premium offering that is wireless and it seems like that’s what they were going to do. Ive’s response about not taking people out of the world is stupid. That’s the point of VR.
- shafyy 6y ago
  It's not only that. It's also the portability and price.
- GeekyBear 6y ago
  The word from those with known accurate sources in Apple's supply chain say that the versions of Apple's AR glasses currently being tested will pair wirelessly with an iPhone, which will do the heavy lifting. I certainly trust Kuo's track record for accuracy more than I trust Gurman's.
whatch 6y ago
> I use my Quest many times a day, often for just a few minutes at a time. It is so easy to get up from my desk, and jump into a ping pong game, enjoy a favorite part of Vader Immortal, randomly try a VR art piece, etc., etc. It was great in that until recently. I leave my quest powered on between gaming sessions. Sometimes I even leave game (beat saber or boxvr) open. It worked great for some time, but for about a couple of months I am experiencing a lot of bugs when it's impossible to recenter headset (using hardware button) and image weirdly freezes for a couple of seconds. Reboot fixes everything until next time. It really ruins using headset for frequent short sessions. And support was really unhelpful.
- Guillaume86 6y ago
  Try going to oculus home, recenter, going back to game (no need to close the game). I use this when I have the issue on BeatSaber.
- zmmmmm 6y ago
  Have the same problem. Fingers crossed it's a temporary regression. Exactly like you, it's been a boon working from home because I will get up for 10 minutes after a long stint of video call and do some SynthRiders etc., which has been amazing for fitness, concentration, etc. Adding 3 minutes to reboot the thing definitely tips it past a critical threshold for that kind of use.
greggman3 6y ago
I have the exact opposite opinion. The Quest is massively underpowered for the games I want to play. I want GTA VR (which is amazing except for the fact that it's not designed for VR). I want beautiful worlds to visit. I want more Half Life Alyx like experiences. I won't get those on a Quest with a mobile GPU anytime soon. This is the major problem will all the mobile tech based VR. The content is not and will never be compelling to the audience that actually wants this tech.
- mzkply 6y ago
  This is classic Apple, they try to widen the audience that wants a tech by simplifying as much as possible, then finding a key value. Prime example is the Apple Watch... who "wears" it now? Sports people...
  - runeb 6y ago
    Apple Watch sales are increasing year over year. "Apple now sells more watches than the entire Swiss watch industry"[0] [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/5/21125565/apple-watch-sales-2019-swiss-watch-market-estimates-outsold https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/5/21125565/apple-watch-sales...
  - poulsbohemian 6y ago
    > Prime example is the Apple Watch... who "wears" it now? Sports people... Two years ago I was on vacation in Hawaii and took a whale watching / snorkel tour. I was the only person on the boat not wearing an Apple Watch. They are pretty much ubiquitous, like the iPhone, among an upper middle class demographic.
    - bsanr2 6y ago
      People on a snorkel tour are sports people.
      - poulsbohemian 6y ago
        You are being snarky and not adding to the conversation. From the time the Apple Watch appeared, it's been denigrated, but I see them everywhere. I see regular complainers here on HN about the iPhone too, but it misses the total saturation in certain demographics. Apple is successful. Yes, we should continue to hold them to a high standard of ethics, but the haters need to realize that consumers like their gear.
torartc 6y ago
I love my Quest too. I use it all the time and really can’t see myself using something tethered.
vl 6y ago
They made a mistake because they didn’t ship anything. It would be much better to ship something and iterate then to wait and miss the boat. Look at HomePod, market share and mind share is minuscule.

zitterbewegung 6y ago

Swapping out the SOC from an Oculus quest to an a13 or higher would be extremely compelling for me to buy. Other than ease of use Oculus Quest the price point (sub 500) might be another factor but OTOH I don't think that's a big factor if its an apple product.

whatch 6y ago
> Swapping out the SOC from an Oculus quest to an a13 or higher would be extremely compelling for me to buy. I agree, but I believe the battery will need upgrade as well
- entropicdrifter 6y ago
  It might help the balance of the system to put the battery at the back of the headband, like this: https://uploadvr.com/vr-power-battery-quest/ https://uploadvr.com/vr-power-battery-quest/

xwdv 6y ago

Agreed, since picking up a Quest my use of tethered VR has dropped significantly. Self contained VR is the way forward IMO. I would only use tethered VR for seated simulations such as flight or racing, which would typically use more peripherals anyway.

bserge 6y ago
Doesn't even need to be self-contained if you use simple streaming over Wifi.
- pdehaan 6y ago
  If the machine doing the streaming is on the local network maybe. VR is not a forgiving environment for latency. If your target 72fps (Quest), about 862 miles is an upper bound for distance. That's just to get data round-trip at fiber speed, additional latency sources (wifi, rendering, encoding, wifi again) are going to make things worse. Prediction and "timewarp" only get you so far. I'm all for wireless headsets to eliminate the tether when using a PC, but to me the Quest is compelling primarily because it's standalone. I can bring it almost anywhere (empty warehouse, a large field outside, hotel rooms) and not need to worry about lugging a bunch of extra gear. It's also really compelling for quick product demos if that's your thing. We can keep builds of software installed on a headset that can go from packed in a small hard-case to ready to show off in about the time it takes to boot.

ngokevin 6y ago

That's interesting, I think a lot of people may use their Quest a lot often because of that hurdle to put on the headset (or charge batteries, etc). This is sort of a self-plug, but we're experimenting with the idea of an app that has a comic reader, book reader, Reddit client, art viewer, video player syncing/streaming from a desktop, if you are interested in trying builds. We sort of looked to build the same thing, something you use a little bit everyday because it's better than tiny screens. And I think as usual, Apple may be what will make VR mainstream, and that'll take quite some time given their AR/Glass focus.

DagAgren 6y ago
> we're experimenting with the idea of an app that has a comic reader, book reader, Reddit client, art viewer, video player Why? I have all of those on my computer without strapping anything to my head.
- dmarcos 6y ago
  You could potentially always have with you as many displays you want to whatever size you prefer and use them wherever you like: desk, couch, laying in bed... VR / AR Headsets can be a more convenient and comfortable replacement for traditional displays and desk setups. [edit] typo
  - DagAgren 6y ago
    Yeah, but all the things mentioned are things that require my full attention for longer spans of time. I don't need separate displays for them, I need one single good display.
    - dmarcos 6y ago
      A VR headset can also give you a single good display on demand. What about reading a 100” mural scale comic book while laying down in bed?
      - 6y ago

jayd16 6y ago

Hmm but the article does say it could operate in a stand alone mode. It sounds pretty similar to the Quest but it could only tether to some special unit and not a Mac?

mark_l_watson 6y ago
Well, an Internet connection is required for the Quest since you do everything in the environment like buying content (but there is a ton of good free content in many genres). Once content is on the device, you don’t need an Internet connection (I sent an Oculus Go to my grandson, he can load it up and then use it at sea on the Coast Guard cutter he is assigned to). Apple’s device(s) should be the same.

michaelbuckbee 6y ago

Conceptually this breaks along really similar lines to PC Gaming vs Console/Set-Top Boxes (Roku, or similar). I've similarly seen much more usage of the Quest from non-technical people as it's much less intimidating to get going.

mark_l_watson 6y ago
I co-setup the SAIC VR Lab about 25 years ago, and I literally spent months buying gear, setting it up, and integrating the good stuff into our lab. We engineered full on motion platforms, haptics feedback, and used SGI Reality Engines. But yes, I do like the easy experience of using the Quest. I expect Apple’s gear to be similarly easy to enjoy.

skellera 6y ago

A lot of people seemed to miss the part that the hub would connect wirelessly. You could still do that. Just plugging in something in the same room is not that much more difficult. I personally would’ve preferred higher graphics. I love my quest but there needs to be a premium offering that is wireless and it seems like that’s what they were going to do. Ive’s response about not taking people out of the world is stupid. That’s the point of VR.

shafyy 6y ago
It's not only that. It's also the portability and price.
GeekyBear 6y ago
The word from those with known accurate sources in Apple's supply chain say that the versions of Apple's AR glasses currently being tested will pair wirelessly with an iPhone, which will do the heavy lifting. I certainly trust Kuo's track record for accuracy more than I trust Gurman's.

whatch 6y ago

> I use my Quest many times a day, often for just a few minutes at a time. It is so easy to get up from my desk, and jump into a ping pong game, enjoy a favorite part of Vader Immortal, randomly try a VR art piece, etc., etc. It was great in that until recently. I leave my quest powered on between gaming sessions. Sometimes I even leave game (beat saber or boxvr) open. It worked great for some time, but for about a couple of months I am experiencing a lot of bugs when it's impossible to recenter headset (using hardware button) and image weirdly freezes for a couple of seconds. Reboot fixes everything until next time. It really ruins using headset for frequent short sessions. And support was really unhelpful.

Guillaume86 6y ago
Try going to oculus home, recenter, going back to game (no need to close the game). I use this when I have the issue on BeatSaber.
zmmmmm 6y ago
Have the same problem. Fingers crossed it's a temporary regression. Exactly like you, it's been a boon working from home because I will get up for 10 minutes after a long stint of video call and do some SynthRiders etc., which has been amazing for fitness, concentration, etc. Adding 3 minutes to reboot the thing definitely tips it past a critical threshold for that kind of use.

greggman3 6y ago

I have the exact opposite opinion. The Quest is massively underpowered for the games I want to play. I want GTA VR (which is amazing except for the fact that it's not designed for VR). I want beautiful worlds to visit. I want more Half Life Alyx like experiences. I won't get those on a Quest with a mobile GPU anytime soon. This is the major problem will all the mobile tech based VR. The content is not and will never be compelling to the audience that actually wants this tech.

mzkply 6y ago
This is classic Apple, they try to widen the audience that wants a tech by simplifying as much as possible, then finding a key value. Prime example is the Apple Watch... who "wears" it now? Sports people...
- runeb 6y ago
  Apple Watch sales are increasing year over year. "Apple now sells more watches than the entire Swiss watch industry"[0] [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/5/21125565/apple-watch-sales-2019-swiss-watch-market-estimates-outsold https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/5/21125565/apple-watch-sales...
- poulsbohemian 6y ago
  > Prime example is the Apple Watch... who "wears" it now? Sports people... Two years ago I was on vacation in Hawaii and took a whale watching / snorkel tour. I was the only person on the boat not wearing an Apple Watch. They are pretty much ubiquitous, like the iPhone, among an upper middle class demographic.
  - bsanr2 6y ago
    People on a snorkel tour are sports people.
    - poulsbohemian 6y ago
      You are being snarky and not adding to the conversation. From the time the Apple Watch appeared, it's been denigrated, but I see them everywhere. I see regular complainers here on HN about the iPhone too, but it misses the total saturation in certain demographics. Apple is successful. Yes, we should continue to hold them to a high standard of ethics, but the haters need to realize that consumers like their gear.

torartc 6y ago

I love my Quest too. I use it all the time and really can’t see myself using something tethered.

vl 6y ago

They made a mistake because they didn’t ship anything. It would be much better to ship something and iterate then to wait and miss the boat. Look at HomePod, market share and mind share is minuscule.