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Jesus wasn't opressed by taking away his slaves, was he?

by trasz 6y ago

aspenmayer 6y ago
Please refer me to the passage in which Jesus freed the slaves serving under Rome? Religious figures aren’t always perfect in our eyes; that doesn’t mean aspiring to virtue is meaningless. It’s an endless journey to salvation and nirvana, but we’re all slouching towards Bethlehem.
- trasz 6y ago
  That's cool and stuff, but irrelevant to what we are discussing here. In Tibet, monasteries benefited greatly from slavery. Abolition of slavery hurt them a lot. No wonder they are protesting.
  - aspenmayer 6y ago
    I’m responding to your comments. It’s relevant to the discussion you started. If you don’t follow your own comments to their logical conclusion, wouldn’t you say you’re not arguing in good faith? It’s kind of how we do things on HN. Tibetan monasteries as they operated historically are an artifact of history. Further historical and archaeological studies would be the only way to gather verifiable data, facts, figures, and artifacts from the period when the supposed slavery occurred. This conversation seems like it is mired in historical revisionism on all sides. I’m not a Chinese Tibetan anthropologist or archaeologist, nor am I a Tibetan Buddhist scholar. I don’t know the facts of what happened, or how their society interpreted those events and the people who experienced them. For me to stand in judgement of such a nebulous concept would be irresponsible. That you are convinced of the correctness of your beliefs is good; you should seek to share your sources so we too can be similarly convinced. Otherwise we’ll just have to take your word for it, which is no better a place than we’re in now. For what it’s worth, slavery is much worse than being a serf. However, being a serf was likely so miserable that the distinction to our modern sensibilities may be one without a difference. I am opposed to forced servitude in all the world in all its forms.
    - trasz 6y ago
      The studies already exist, though. I don't think any of them questions the fact that monasteries benefited greatly from serfdom/slavery; the dispute is about how horrible it was for the rest of the population. (Random Wikipedia quote: "Tibetan communist Phuntso Wangye recalled his anger at seeing freshly severed human ears hanging from the gate of the county headquarters in Damshung north of Lhasa in 1945".)
      - aspenmayer 6y ago
        Random Wikipedia quotes aren’t verifiable, and thus aren’t valid sources in this context. But to keep in the spirit of debate, Communist sources would be suspect, as would Tibetan ones. Neutral bystanders or third parties have less incentive to misrepresent events and context to put their side in a better light, like Communist and Tibetans would both naturally be suspected to be doing. Do you have any third party sources for these time periods and events?
        trasz 6y ago
        Of course I do, and had you bothered to read the linked article you'd find them.
        aspenmayer 6y ago
        Wikipedia’s sources are Wikipedia’s. I’m asking you to post some specific links here in the discussion so we can discuss them. We already discussed your last batch of Wikipedia sources and found them inconclusive and lacking. If you’d like to discuss specific links, then link me to the specific original source and we can look at them. I am open to being convinced, but only you know what sources you’re finding so convincing. Simply saying you already posted them is a dodge because we already discussed the Wikipedia page you linked, but you don’t say which sources in that article you are referring to. Please clarify so we can all be on the same page together.
        trasz 6y ago
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines and sticking to the rules when posting here? Note that they include: "Don't be snarky." "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Jesus wasn't opressed by taking away his slaves, was he?

by trasz 6y ago

Jesus wasn't opressed by taking away his slaves, was he?

Please refer me to the passage in which Jesus freed the slaves serving under Rome? Religious figures aren’t always perfect in our eyes; that doesn’t mean aspiring to virtue is meaningless. It’s an endless journey to salvation and nirvana, but we’re all slouching towards Bethlehem.

trasz 6y ago
That's cool and stuff, but irrelevant to what we are discussing here. In Tibet, monasteries benefited greatly from slavery. Abolition of slavery hurt them a lot. No wonder they are protesting.
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  I’m responding to your comments. It’s relevant to the discussion you started. If you don’t follow your own comments to their logical conclusion, wouldn’t you say you’re not arguing in good faith? It’s kind of how we do things on HN. Tibetan monasteries as they operated historically are an artifact of history. Further historical and archaeological studies would be the only way to gather verifiable data, facts, figures, and artifacts from the period when the supposed slavery occurred. This conversation seems like it is mired in historical revisionism on all sides. I’m not a Chinese Tibetan anthropologist or archaeologist, nor am I a Tibetan Buddhist scholar. I don’t know the facts of what happened, or how their society interpreted those events and the people who experienced them. For me to stand in judgement of such a nebulous concept would be irresponsible. That you are convinced of the correctness of your beliefs is good; you should seek to share your sources so we too can be similarly convinced. Otherwise we’ll just have to take your word for it, which is no better a place than we’re in now. For what it’s worth, slavery is much worse than being a serf. However, being a serf was likely so miserable that the distinction to our modern sensibilities may be one without a difference. I am opposed to forced servitude in all the world in all its forms.
  - trasz 6y ago
    The studies already exist, though. I don't think any of them questions the fact that monasteries benefited greatly from serfdom/slavery; the dispute is about how horrible it was for the rest of the population. (Random Wikipedia quote: "Tibetan communist Phuntso Wangye recalled his anger at seeing freshly severed human ears hanging from the gate of the county headquarters in Damshung north of Lhasa in 1945".)
    - aspenmayer 6y ago
      Random Wikipedia quotes aren’t verifiable, and thus aren’t valid sources in this context. But to keep in the spirit of debate, Communist sources would be suspect, as would Tibetan ones. Neutral bystanders or third parties have less incentive to misrepresent events and context to put their side in a better light, like Communist and Tibetans would both naturally be suspected to be doing. Do you have any third party sources for these time periods and events?
      - trasz 6y ago
        Of course I do, and had you bothered to read the linked article you'd find them.
        aspenmayer 6y ago
        Wikipedia’s sources are Wikipedia’s. I’m asking you to post some specific links here in the discussion so we can discuss them. We already discussed your last batch of Wikipedia sources and found them inconclusive and lacking. If you’d like to discuss specific links, then link me to the specific original source and we can look at them. I am open to being convinced, but only you know what sources you’re finding so convincing. Simply saying you already posted them is a dodge because we already discussed the Wikipedia page you linked, but you don’t say which sources in that article you are referring to. Please clarify so we can all be on the same page together.
        trasz 6y ago
- dang 6y ago
  Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines and sticking to the rules when posting here? Note that they include: "Don't be snarky." "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html