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If you don't like it, then don't buy their products, it's that simple. Sovereign countries are sovereign of course. But that's a truism that's irrelevant in th

If you don't like it, then don't buy their products, it's that simple. Sovereign countries are sovereign of course. But that's a truism that's irrelevant in this discussion. Such countries can ban Apple products if they don't like it. Choose your own values and build your own products. --- > "Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine." Actually it's not fine at all, in my opinion. I understand having different values, but we are talking about privacy and being born in the communism of Eastern Europe, I think privacy should be a basic inalienable human right. I value companies that don't compromise on such values, as it shows not all of them are morally bankrupt. And yes, I avoid products from Chinese companies for that reason and I'm always skeptical of US products too. Sorry, but I'll never buy stuff from companies like Huawei, not until I'll see a strong commitment to privacy, especially when the administration of the host country sees human rights as an existential threat and targets activists from other countries.

pjc50 6y ago
Not just you, it's the highest law in Europe: ECHR Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life 1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. 2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. (yes, there is a lot of elasticity in that "except")
rydre 6y ago
> And yes, I avoid products from Chinese companies for that reason and I'm always skeptical of US products too. Sorry, but I'll never buy stuff from companies like Huawei, not until I'll see a strong commitment to privacy, especially when the administration of the host country sees human rights as an existential threat and targets activists from other countries. Stop buying stuff from Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft because these companies are a part of a surveillance program called PRISM. IF you really value privacy, you wouldn't just abandon Huawei, but you'd do the same for these companies too. Unless you have a double standard of course.
- bad_user 6y ago
  Why are you jumping to conclusions on the double standard? Classic whataboutism. No, I don't use Google or Facebook either. And I've been avoiding Microsoft since the '90-ties.
  - rydre 6y ago
    Good on you, I find it hard to be without Google and Facebook however. I instead choose to give my data to both governments of opposing values. Kill the competitive value of my data.
    - Razengan 6y ago
      Are you seriously claiming to hold moral high ground while siding with Google and Facebook? If you think it's okay to use them but not Apple, the most benign of the major companies, that people only interact with when they CHOOSE to, your bizarre crusade kind of loses its edge. Even if one NEVER explicitly uses any Google or Facebook service, they would still be feeding their day to them just by visiting completely unrelated websites. Apple does a lot more good for people than either of them.
      - rydre 6y ago
        I use Apple's iPhone too. I use Google for search. And Facebook for social networking. And I use Microsoft's Windows as my pc. I'm not taking anyone's side in here. I'm just saying that I do not consider the Apples stance of privacy as more then a façade but I don't really care about privacy as much as Apple pretends that they care about. I do care about privacy from other companies, not from government to the extent permitted under the law. And yes, I think that Google is still better compared to Apple as far as the web is concerned. I can freely block their trackers if I want to. Google's interests align with the future of the web. Apple's interests are a complete walled garden. As a consumer, for as long as the web thrives, most people benefit. When a wall garden happens, that is when consumers lose in the longer term.

pjc50 6y ago

Not just you, it's the highest law in Europe: ECHR Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life 1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. 2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. (yes, there is a lot of elasticity in that "except")

rydre 6y ago

> And yes, I avoid products from Chinese companies for that reason and I'm always skeptical of US products too. Sorry, but I'll never buy stuff from companies like Huawei, not until I'll see a strong commitment to privacy, especially when the administration of the host country sees human rights as an existential threat and targets activists from other countries. Stop buying stuff from Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft because these companies are a part of a surveillance program called PRISM. IF you really value privacy, you wouldn't just abandon Huawei, but you'd do the same for these companies too. Unless you have a double standard of course.

bad_user 6y ago
Why are you jumping to conclusions on the double standard? Classic whataboutism. No, I don't use Google or Facebook either. And I've been avoiding Microsoft since the '90-ties.
- rydre 6y ago
  Good on you, I find it hard to be without Google and Facebook however. I instead choose to give my data to both governments of opposing values. Kill the competitive value of my data.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    Are you seriously claiming to hold moral high ground while siding with Google and Facebook? If you think it's okay to use them but not Apple, the most benign of the major companies, that people only interact with when they CHOOSE to, your bizarre crusade kind of loses its edge. Even if one NEVER explicitly uses any Google or Facebook service, they would still be feeding their day to them just by visiting completely unrelated websites. Apple does a lot more good for people than either of them.
    - rydre 6y ago
      I use Apple's iPhone too. I use Google for search. And Facebook for social networking. And I use Microsoft's Windows as my pc. I'm not taking anyone's side in here. I'm just saying that I do not consider the Apples stance of privacy as more then a façade but I don't really care about privacy as much as Apple pretends that they care about. I do care about privacy from other companies, not from government to the extent permitted under the law. And yes, I think that Google is still better compared to Apple as far as the web is concerned. I can freely block their trackers if I want to. Google's interests align with the future of the web. Apple's interests are a complete walled garden. As a consumer, for as long as the web thrives, most people benefit. When a wall garden happens, that is when consumers lose in the longer term.