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Sometimes I think that that colleges and universities should accept students after they sign consent (kinda like medical consent): I understand that classes tak

Sometimes I think that that colleges and universities should accept students after they sign consent (kinda like medical consent): I understand that classes take sensitive subjects and i Agree that being exposed to information about disturbing historical circumstances is necessary for learning and graduating

eesmith 6y ago
The process of being warned that you will be exposed to information about disturbing historical circumstances is a trigger warning. However, the trigger warning you've described isn't that useful. Consider one case I read about - a college biology teacher teaching a developmental biology course. Part of that course includes showing photos of deformed human fetuses. He gives a warning because that's traumatic to some people. For example, there may be a student who experienced a miscarriage due to a birth defect, and the emotions may still too raw to be handled without at least some preparation. Warnings give preparation. But does a single warning, when entering college, really provide reasonable preparation for the entire four or so years? No. Second, some people are really close to the topic already. The essay describes an essay about the Hungarian Holocaust, where the professor asks "How can I teach the Holocaust without unsettling my students?" What about those students who are already unsettled? I remember the episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?" when Stephen Fry learns more about his family who died in the Holocaust. Even though he knows they died in the death camps, he still cries when reading details, like at https://youtu.be/6t9IqViVy9I?t=142 https://youtu.be/6t9IqViVy9I?t=142. A student who comes from a family which survived the Holocaust, where stories are may still be alive and close, might be prepared for discussion, but not images. In both my examples, it's the people who are most closely involved with the materials who are most likely to be traumatized without preparation. But the Guardian article doesn't explain why the student felt traumatized and distressed, or what warnings the teacher actually gave. It only implied that the students should be able to accept any relevant material, and without any warning or emotional consequences. Which doesn't seem fair or reasonable. Third, such a warning as you propose shouldn't apply to out-of-context history. Certainly no one expects pictures of the Holocaust as part of a math course. Lastly, in the analogy with medical consent, it's supposed to be informed consent. Medical consent isn't simply "I acknowledge the doctor says something is wrong and I accept any consequences of treatment." And teaching is the process of becoming informed, giving a bootstrap situation.
Yetanfou 6y ago
I don't know whether they're signing any consent documents but from what I've heard this is what the university of Chicago is doing - make clear to prospective students that a university is a place to learn and be challenged, not a 'safe space', not a 'home away from home'.
- eesmith 6y ago
  Odd then that there's a U. Chicago Safe Spaces program - https://inclusion.uchicago.edu/lgbtq-student-life/ways-to-get-involved/safe-space/ https://inclusion.uchicago.edu/lgbtq-student-life/ways-to-ge... . Here's a quote, from https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9601 https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9601 : > “At the University of Chicago, we insist that all faculty and students are free to debate, disagree, and argue, without fear of being silenced,” Dean of Students Dr. John (Jay) Ellison wrote in a letter welcoming incoming freshmen to campus. You'll read the 2021 letter doesn't use the term "safe space", unlike in 2020 (where quoting https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/university-chicago-we-don-t-condone-safe-spaces-or-trigger-n637721 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/university-chicago-we... ): > Ellison wrote, "we do not support so-called 'trigger warnings,' we do not cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial, and we do not condone the creation of intellectual 'safe spaces' where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own." See, the thing is, a "safe space" isn't about "retreat[ing] from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own", it's about giving people a place to speak out 'without fear of being silenced'. That misunderstanding may have lead to the removal of "safe spaces" from this year's letter.

eesmith 6y ago

The process of being warned that you will be exposed to information about disturbing historical circumstances is a trigger warning. However, the trigger warning you've described isn't that useful. Consider one case I read about - a college biology teacher teaching a developmental biology course. Part of that course includes showing photos of deformed human fetuses. He gives a warning because that's traumatic to some people. For example, there may be a student who experienced a miscarriage due to a birth defect, and the emotions may still too raw to be handled without at least some preparation. Warnings give preparation. But does a single warning, when entering college, really provide reasonable preparation for the entire four or so years? No. Second, some people are really close to the topic already. The essay describes an essay about the Hungarian Holocaust, where the professor asks "How can I teach the Holocaust without unsettling my students?" What about those students who are already unsettled? I remember the episode of "Who Do You Think You Are?" when Stephen Fry learns more about his family who died in the Holocaust. Even though he knows they died in the death camps, he still cries when reading details, like at https://youtu.be/6t9IqViVy9I?t=142 https://youtu.be/6t9IqViVy9I?t=142. A student who comes from a family which survived the Holocaust, where stories are may still be alive and close, might be prepared for discussion, but not images. In both my examples, it's the people who are most closely involved with the materials who are most likely to be traumatized without preparation. But the Guardian article doesn't explain why the student felt traumatized and distressed, or what warnings the teacher actually gave. It only implied that the students should be able to accept any relevant material, and without any warning or emotional consequences. Which doesn't seem fair or reasonable. Third, such a warning as you propose shouldn't apply to out-of-context history. Certainly no one expects pictures of the Holocaust as part of a math course. Lastly, in the analogy with medical consent, it's supposed to be informed consent. Medical consent isn't simply "I acknowledge the doctor says something is wrong and I accept any consequences of treatment." And teaching is the process of becoming informed, giving a bootstrap situation.

Yetanfou 6y ago

I don't know whether they're signing any consent documents but from what I've heard this is what the university of Chicago is doing - make clear to prospective students that a university is a place to learn and be challenged, not a 'safe space', not a 'home away from home'.

eesmith 6y ago
Odd then that there's a U. Chicago Safe Spaces program - https://inclusion.uchicago.edu/lgbtq-student-life/ways-to-get-involved/safe-space/ https://inclusion.uchicago.edu/lgbtq-student-life/ways-to-ge... . Here's a quote, from https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9601 https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9601 : > “At the University of Chicago, we insist that all faculty and students are free to debate, disagree, and argue, without fear of being silenced,” Dean of Students Dr. John (Jay) Ellison wrote in a letter welcoming incoming freshmen to campus. You'll read the 2021 letter doesn't use the term "safe space", unlike in 2020 (where quoting https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/university-chicago-we-don-t-condone-safe-spaces-or-trigger-n637721 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/university-chicago-we... ): > Ellison wrote, "we do not support so-called 'trigger warnings,' we do not cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial, and we do not condone the creation of intellectual 'safe spaces' where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own." See, the thing is, a "safe space" isn't about "retreat[ing] from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own", it's about giving people a place to speak out 'without fear of being silenced'. That misunderstanding may have lead to the removal of "safe spaces" from this year's letter.