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The analogy with brick and mortar stores doesn't really work, because in the case of iOS Apple owns and controls the only store. You could argue people could c

The analogy with brick and mortar stores doesn't really work, because in the case of iOS Apple owns and controls the only store. You could argue people could choose Android, but that's not quite the same thing since the user has to completely change operating systems and hardware to do it. I'm not sure there is a good non-digital analogy. If Apple cared about the user experience they could still require in app sign up and IAP, but not take a rent-seeking cut. They could make money by inventing and selling really great products (which is why people like them in the first place).

alberth 6y ago
Why does it even need to be an iOS app. Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? Again, just playing devils advocate. But Hey can in fact make their product accessible to iOS user via Safari. And Hey wouldn’t need to give Apple any money for that. Safari will even let user save a web app directly to your home screen. Ironically, this functionality existed BEFORE the Apple store even existed. https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-screen-iphone-ipad/amp/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-scre... EDIT: why the downvotes? I’m just trying to facilitate a friendly two-sided point of view on this topic. See my NOTE in my original parent post. I’m just trying to point out this is a way more complex topic than most realize.
- rydre 6y ago
  > Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? No. Apple has crippled the Progress Web Apps on iOS safari. No email client is useful without push notifications. All other browser on iOS (including Chrome and Firefox) are wrappers around Safari, because Apple restricts other browser engines i.e: Chromium, Firefox. Look at how many requests for new features/API's are there on the WebKit forms. Apple choses to ignore them because if Apple were to really support PWA's properly, this situation wouldn't have happened. Apple also randomly clears storage for website added to homescreen and there is a limit of only 50mb. Apps like Gmail cache data on the scale of 600mb to several GB.
  - alberth 6y ago
    Again, devils advocate. But push notification absolutely kills your battery. Back to point number 1, user experience. It’s not a good user experience if your iPhone lasts only 2 hours because push notifications kill your battery.
    - rydre 6y ago
      > But push notification absolutely kills your battery. No they don't. Push notifications are managed by a push service like Firebase messaging or Apple Push Notification Service (APNS). Do you even know what you're talking about? If you don't want push notifications, fine. But don't force your opinion on the rest of us who want them. No email client is useful without them. You're arguments are honestly ridiculous at this point. All other apps are killed in background after 20s on iOS. I have push notifications "on" on my iPhone and my battery is fine. Now stop playing devil's advocate, because the devil really is guilty in this case. It's Apple.
      - zimpenfish 6y ago
        > Push notifications are managed by a push service like Firebase messaging or Apple Push Notification Service (APNS) They can still wake up your phone when they're delivered and that will drain battery. https://www.apple.com/uk/batteries/maximizing-performance/ https://www.apple.com/uk/batteries/maximizing-performance/ * If an app frequently wakes your display with notifications, you can turn off push notifications for the app in Settings > Notifications. Tap the app and set Allow Notifications to Off. > No email client is useful without them. I've had an iPhone for 10 years now and I've never had push notifications on for the 5 email accounts on there. Mind you, my battery isn't fine because the phone gets used a lot and that's what kills batteries quick.
        rydre 6y ago
        >I've had an iPhone for 10 years now and I've never had push notifications on for the 5 email accounts on there. Mind you, my battery isn't fine because the phone gets used a lot and that's what kills batteries quick. You are a unique/minority case. The vast majority of the population that uses emails prefers notification for important mails.
- fossuser 6y ago
  The simple answer is because mobile web apps suck. As a user I want a native app. Hey (or any dev really) should be able to write software for a platform without having to pay tax, maybe they pay for app store distribution or review or submission or something (developer account?), but they shouldn't have to do profit sharing. I understand the value of having a curated store, I understand the value of locking down the OS. If you're going to do that though - you shouldn't be able to tap all profits going through it. Imagine if macOS only ran applications from the macOS app store and took a cut of everything. Imagine if they forced Safari only on macOS and took a cut of applications there too. It's not a perfect analogy because most apps on desktop are web apps and not native and the history is more of an open system, but there's something wrong with this kind of rent-seeking. It's counter to their brand, it's hostile, and I'd argue it's likely to make them focus on the wrong things.

alberth 6y ago

Why does it even need to be an iOS app. Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? Again, just playing devils advocate. But Hey can in fact make their product accessible to iOS user via Safari. And Hey wouldn’t need to give Apple any money for that. Safari will even let user save a web app directly to your home screen. Ironically, this functionality existed BEFORE the Apple store even existed. https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-screen-iphone-ipad/amp/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-scre... EDIT: why the downvotes? I’m just trying to facilitate a friendly two-sided point of view on this topic. See my NOTE in my original parent post. I’m just trying to point out this is a way more complex topic than most realize.

rydre 6y ago
> Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? No. Apple has crippled the Progress Web Apps on iOS safari. No email client is useful without push notifications. All other browser on iOS (including Chrome and Firefox) are wrappers around Safari, because Apple restricts other browser engines i.e: Chromium, Firefox. Look at how many requests for new features/API's are there on the WebKit forms. Apple choses to ignore them because if Apple were to really support PWA's properly, this situation wouldn't have happened. Apple also randomly clears storage for website added to homescreen and there is a limit of only 50mb. Apps like Gmail cache data on the scale of 600mb to several GB.
- alberth 6y ago
  Again, devils advocate. But push notification absolutely kills your battery. Back to point number 1, user experience. It’s not a good user experience if your iPhone lasts only 2 hours because push notifications kill your battery.
  - rydre 6y ago
    > But push notification absolutely kills your battery. No they don't. Push notifications are managed by a push service like Firebase messaging or Apple Push Notification Service (APNS). Do you even know what you're talking about? If you don't want push notifications, fine. But don't force your opinion on the rest of us who want them. No email client is useful without them. You're arguments are honestly ridiculous at this point. All other apps are killed in background after 20s on iOS. I have push notifications "on" on my iPhone and my battery is fine. Now stop playing devil's advocate, because the devil really is guilty in this case. It's Apple.
    - zimpenfish 6y ago
      > Push notifications are managed by a push service like Firebase messaging or Apple Push Notification Service (APNS) They can still wake up your phone when they're delivered and that will drain battery. https://www.apple.com/uk/batteries/maximizing-performance/ https://www.apple.com/uk/batteries/maximizing-performance/ * If an app frequently wakes your display with notifications, you can turn off push notifications for the app in Settings > Notifications. Tap the app and set Allow Notifications to Off. > No email client is useful without them. I've had an iPhone for 10 years now and I've never had push notifications on for the 5 email accounts on there. Mind you, my battery isn't fine because the phone gets used a lot and that's what kills batteries quick.
      - rydre 6y ago
        >I've had an iPhone for 10 years now and I've never had push notifications on for the 5 email accounts on there. Mind you, my battery isn't fine because the phone gets used a lot and that's what kills batteries quick. You are a unique/minority case. The vast majority of the population that uses emails prefers notification for important mails.
fossuser 6y ago
The simple answer is because mobile web apps suck. As a user I want a native app. Hey (or any dev really) should be able to write software for a platform without having to pay tax, maybe they pay for app store distribution or review or submission or something (developer account?), but they shouldn't have to do profit sharing. I understand the value of having a curated store, I understand the value of locking down the OS. If you're going to do that though - you shouldn't be able to tap all profits going through it. Imagine if macOS only ran applications from the macOS app store and took a cut of everything. Imagine if they forced Safari only on macOS and took a cut of applications there too. It's not a perfect analogy because most apps on desktop are web apps and not native and the history is more of an open system, but there's something wrong with this kind of rent-seeking. It's counter to their brand, it's hostile, and I'd argue it's likely to make them focus on the wrong things.