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Am I alone in thinking this isn’t Apple being as bad as others are making them out to be? I’ll explain ... Apple deeply cares about two things, (1) user exper

Am I alone in thinking this isn’t Apple being as bad as others are making them out to be? I’ll explain ... Apple deeply cares about two things, (1) user experience and (2) user privacy. Today, Hey iOS when downloaded IS NOT FUNCTIONAL if you didn’t know to already sign up for the service on their website. That’s a horrible experience and no one likes it. Especially Apple. On Trust/Privacy, Apple is safe guarding users CardOnFile data with all of their advanced security features that they have worked directly with the major card networks that no small developers (or even frankly medium or large developer) could compete with. This benefits the consumer by reducing fraud, and not having your credit card data sitting in some developers data unencrypted. Apple also helps auto update cardonfile data when the card expires so that the developers don’t lose revenue just because of expired cards. As for the 30% fee, why shouldn’t they get a cut? If the App Store was a physical brick and mortar store Like BestBuy, I guarantee you then BestBuy wants to make margin on products they allow in their store. (A) it’s a distribution channel to a consumer you as a developer don’t have, (B) there’s hard costs to putting your product in the App Store “shelf” and (C) Apple is providing all of the easy and secure payment processing on behalf of thr developer. Note: I’m not trying to be combative. I’m just playing devils advocate and pointing out this topic is way more complex than others are making it out to be.

tathougies 6y ago
> As for the 30% fee, why shouldn’t they get a cut? Because it's anti-competitive (Supreme Court agrees...). It's not apple's responsibility to help me safeguard my credit card data.
- alberth 6y ago
  Can you provide a reference to your comment about the “Supreme court agrees”. I don’t know what youre referring too.
  - tathougies 6y ago
    https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/13/supreme-court-rules-against-apple-allowing-an-app-store-antitrust-case-to-proceed/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/13/supreme-court-rules-agains...
    - zimpenfish 6y ago
      That just says that SCOTUS agreed it met the standards to go forward as a case, not that it is actually anti-competitive, right? That'll be decided by a lower court in the actual case, no?
smnrchrds 6y ago
> Today, Hey iOS when downloaded IS NOT FUNCTIONAL if you didn’t know to already sign up for the service on their website. The only reason for this is that Apple explicitly disallows apps from linking to or even mentioning subscription options that do not go through Apple's payment ecosystem and pay Apple's tax. Blaming the ensuing bad user experience on app developers is a case of "why are you hitting yourself?" > As for the 30% fee, why shouldn’t they get a cut? That 30% is, ultimately, coming from our pockets. Apple wants it because it prefers our money in their pockets. We, as the consumers, should fight back and demand it be lowered because we prefer our money in our own pockets. I don't understand why I should advocate that Apple should make apps more expensive and should take more of my money.
- alberth 6y ago
  But don’t they do this because they can Protect the consumers card data better than anyone. Everyone loves Apple for their unwavering stance in user Privacy. How is this not just another example of that? (I’m not trying to be combative. I’m just playing devils advocate and pointing out this topic is way more complex than others are making it out to be)
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    >But don’t they do this because they can Protect the consumers card data better than anyone. Compared to what? If there is a fraudulent charge on your credit card, issue a chargeback. If I had two options: 1) Once every couple of years I may get a credit card's details stolen and I have to spend perhaps an hour on the phone with the bank to get thing sorted out, 2) the credit card issuer gives me a card with some futuristic technology that makes fraud literally impossible; so I don't have to spend that one hour every couple of years sorting out a fraudulent transaction; however, the credit card adds a 30% surcharge to every transaction—I would choose option 1, no questions. Wouldn't you?
    - veilrap 6y ago
      It seems like a lot of consumers would, and do choose 2) by choosing to buy into Apple's ecosystem.
sjg007 6y ago
Ummm... Netflix? Amazon Prime?
stephc_int13 6y ago
Of course they can get a cut, like any retail store. But 30% is waaaay higher than what is usual retail markup. It should be single digit.
- alberth 6y ago
  You’d be surprised but many products provide a 100% markup for the retailer. It’s so common there’s a term for it. Keystone pricing https://www.marketing91.com/keystone-pricing/ https://www.marketing91.com/keystone-pricing/ Also keep in mind that just the credit card processing, which Apple absorbs the cost of can be ~3% + $0.25
- danielheath 6y ago
  Usual retail markup depends on the category. For jeans it’s several thousand percent.
fossuser 6y ago
The analogy with brick and mortar stores doesn't really work, because in the case of iOS Apple owns and controls the only store. You could argue people could choose Android, but that's not quite the same thing since the user has to completely change operating systems and hardware to do it. I'm not sure there is a good non-digital analogy. If Apple cared about the user experience they could still require in app sign up and IAP, but not take a rent-seeking cut. They could make money by inventing and selling really great products (which is why people like them in the first place).
- alberth 6y ago
  Why does it even need to be an iOS app. Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? Again, just playing devils advocate. But Hey can in fact make their product accessible to iOS user via Safari. And Hey wouldn’t need to give Apple any money for that. Safari will even let user save a web app directly to your home screen. Ironically, this functionality existed BEFORE the Apple store even existed. https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-screen-iphone-ipad/amp/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-scre... EDIT: why the downvotes? I’m just trying to facilitate a friendly two-sided point of view on this topic. See my NOTE in my original parent post. I’m just trying to point out this is a way more complex topic than most realize.
  - rydre 6y ago
    > Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? No. Apple has crippled the Progress Web Apps on iOS safari. No email client is useful without push notifications. All other browser on iOS (including Chrome and Firefox) are wrappers around Safari, because Apple restricts other browser engines i.e: Chromium, Firefox. Look at how many requests for new features/API's are there on the WebKit forms. Apple choses to ignore them because if Apple were to really support PWA's properly, this situation wouldn't have happened. Apple also randomly clears storage for website added to homescreen and there is a limit of only 50mb. Apps like Gmail cache data on the scale of 600mb to several GB.
    - 6y ago

tathougies 6y ago

> As for the 30% fee, why shouldn’t they get a cut? Because it's anti-competitive (Supreme Court agrees...). It's not apple's responsibility to help me safeguard my credit card data.

alberth 6y ago
Can you provide a reference to your comment about the “Supreme court agrees”. I don’t know what youre referring too.
- tathougies 6y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/13/supreme-court-rules-against-apple-allowing-an-app-store-antitrust-case-to-proceed/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/13/supreme-court-rules-agains...
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    That just says that SCOTUS agreed it met the standards to go forward as a case, not that it is actually anti-competitive, right? That'll be decided by a lower court in the actual case, no?

smnrchrds 6y ago

> Today, Hey iOS when downloaded IS NOT FUNCTIONAL if you didn’t know to already sign up for the service on their website. The only reason for this is that Apple explicitly disallows apps from linking to or even mentioning subscription options that do not go through Apple's payment ecosystem and pay Apple's tax. Blaming the ensuing bad user experience on app developers is a case of "why are you hitting yourself?" > As for the 30% fee, why shouldn’t they get a cut? That 30% is, ultimately, coming from our pockets. Apple wants it because it prefers our money in their pockets. We, as the consumers, should fight back and demand it be lowered because we prefer our money in our own pockets. I don't understand why I should advocate that Apple should make apps more expensive and should take more of my money.

alberth 6y ago
But don’t they do this because they can Protect the consumers card data better than anyone. Everyone loves Apple for their unwavering stance in user Privacy. How is this not just another example of that? (I’m not trying to be combative. I’m just playing devils advocate and pointing out this topic is way more complex than others are making it out to be)
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  >But don’t they do this because they can Protect the consumers card data better than anyone. Compared to what? If there is a fraudulent charge on your credit card, issue a chargeback. If I had two options: 1) Once every couple of years I may get a credit card's details stolen and I have to spend perhaps an hour on the phone with the bank to get thing sorted out, 2) the credit card issuer gives me a card with some futuristic technology that makes fraud literally impossible; so I don't have to spend that one hour every couple of years sorting out a fraudulent transaction; however, the credit card adds a 30% surcharge to every transaction—I would choose option 1, no questions. Wouldn't you?
  - veilrap 6y ago
    It seems like a lot of consumers would, and do choose 2) by choosing to buy into Apple's ecosystem.

sjg007 6y ago

Ummm... Netflix? Amazon Prime?

stephc_int13 6y ago

Of course they can get a cut, like any retail store. But 30% is waaaay higher than what is usual retail markup. It should be single digit.

alberth 6y ago
You’d be surprised but many products provide a 100% markup for the retailer. It’s so common there’s a term for it. Keystone pricing https://www.marketing91.com/keystone-pricing/ https://www.marketing91.com/keystone-pricing/ Also keep in mind that just the credit card processing, which Apple absorbs the cost of can be ~3% + $0.25
danielheath 6y ago
Usual retail markup depends on the category. For jeans it’s several thousand percent.

fossuser 6y ago

The analogy with brick and mortar stores doesn't really work, because in the case of iOS Apple owns and controls the only store. You could argue people could choose Android, but that's not quite the same thing since the user has to completely change operating systems and hardware to do it. I'm not sure there is a good non-digital analogy. If Apple cared about the user experience they could still require in app sign up and IAP, but not take a rent-seeking cut. They could make money by inventing and selling really great products (which is why people like them in the first place).

alberth 6y ago
Why does it even need to be an iOS app. Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? Again, just playing devils advocate. But Hey can in fact make their product accessible to iOS user via Safari. And Hey wouldn’t need to give Apple any money for that. Safari will even let user save a web app directly to your home screen. Ironically, this functionality existed BEFORE the Apple store even existed. https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-screen-iphone-ipad/amp/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/add-a-web-link-to-home-scre... EDIT: why the downvotes? I’m just trying to facilitate a friendly two-sided point of view on this topic. See my NOTE in my original parent post. I’m just trying to point out this is a way more complex topic than most realize.
- rydre 6y ago
  > Why can’t Hey offer a mobile web version of their app? No. Apple has crippled the Progress Web Apps on iOS safari. No email client is useful without push notifications. All other browser on iOS (including Chrome and Firefox) are wrappers around Safari, because Apple restricts other browser engines i.e: Chromium, Firefox. Look at how many requests for new features/API's are there on the WebKit forms. Apple choses to ignore them because if Apple were to really support PWA's properly, this situation wouldn't have happened. Apple also randomly clears storage for website added to homescreen and there is a limit of only 50mb. Apps like Gmail cache data on the scale of 600mb to several GB.
  - 6y ago