5 ms·

It sounds like Apple is requiring IAP integration. I think that's what DHH is upset about.

paxys 6y ago
Sure, but I don't see any major downsides in having to add IAP and getting the same subscription fees from people who use it as everyone else. I'd say giving users more options is always good.
- bduerst 6y ago
  >Sure, but I don't see any major downsides in having to add IAP Technical debt, added complexity, additional user support, the overhead of having forked subscriptions in the userbase...
- artursapek 6y ago
  I actually don't agree with DHH here, just pointing out the difference. I think Apple has every right to expect a cut of developer revenue given how much they invest in the iOS platform.
  - brandon272 6y ago
    The iOS platform would not be viable without developers. I think Apple has every right to expect developers to pay to be part of their platform, which they already charge for through an annual fee. Expecting a "cut" of every developer's "revenue", even when the product is a cross platform software product, seems extreme.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Would you be okay if Apple charged more for developer fees? A per app fee? A per app update fee? Can I pay a one time fee to get a product stocked at any retailer?
      - brandon272 6y ago
        > Would you be okay if Apple charged more for developer fees? A per app fee? A per app update fee? Yes, I would be fine with any of those scenarios. A $1,000 fee to add your app to the app store would be more preferable to me than a nebulous rule about taking 30% of my gross revenue and having Apple dictate to me what my overall business model needs to look like. > Can I pay a one time fee to get a product stocked at any retailer? To compare what is going on here with a traditional retail environment is really an apples and oranges comparison. If Apple wants to take my app, price it and sell it at markup, be my guest. What they are doing is more like if Best Buy forced Nest to give it 30% of every Nest cloud subscription on Nest devices bought in Best Buy retail outlets. Or if Best Buy forced Apple to give it 30% of iCloud subscription fees for MacBooks sold from within Best Buy retail outlets, only after Apple implemented "Best Buy Payments" into it's MacOS software to ensure those fees were collected.
        scarface74 6y ago
        The 30% cut is a 43% markup. Price your app accordingly. You can even price your subscriptions differently depending on where they subscribe. Apple tried exactly that - to let booksellers set their own prices and they just mark them up. That’s what the publishers wanted instead of Amazon’s pricing ebooks as a loss leader - devaluing the paperbacks and hardbacks. It was shot down by the justice department.
- jonas21 6y ago
  The issue is that you're not allowed to link to the non-IAP option from the app or even tell users that it exists. If most users are unaware they have the option, it's not really an option.
- brandon272 6y ago
  One major downside is that once you implement IAP in a cross platform proudct, you then have a different class of subscriptions occurring and being managed outside your platform. Subscriptions which have to conform to Apple's policies around renewal and cancellation. This introduces business, backend and accounting considerations.

Sure, but I don't see any major downsides in having to add IAP and getting the same subscription fees from people who use it as everyone else. I'd say giving users more options is always good.

bduerst 6y ago
>Sure, but I don't see any major downsides in having to add IAP Technical debt, added complexity, additional user support, the overhead of having forked subscriptions in the userbase...
artursapek 6y ago
I actually don't agree with DHH here, just pointing out the difference. I think Apple has every right to expect a cut of developer revenue given how much they invest in the iOS platform.
- brandon272 6y ago
  The iOS platform would not be viable without developers. I think Apple has every right to expect developers to pay to be part of their platform, which they already charge for through an annual fee. Expecting a "cut" of every developer's "revenue", even when the product is a cross platform software product, seems extreme.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Would you be okay if Apple charged more for developer fees? A per app fee? A per app update fee? Can I pay a one time fee to get a product stocked at any retailer?
    - brandon272 6y ago
      > Would you be okay if Apple charged more for developer fees? A per app fee? A per app update fee? Yes, I would be fine with any of those scenarios. A $1,000 fee to add your app to the app store would be more preferable to me than a nebulous rule about taking 30% of my gross revenue and having Apple dictate to me what my overall business model needs to look like. > Can I pay a one time fee to get a product stocked at any retailer? To compare what is going on here with a traditional retail environment is really an apples and oranges comparison. If Apple wants to take my app, price it and sell it at markup, be my guest. What they are doing is more like if Best Buy forced Nest to give it 30% of every Nest cloud subscription on Nest devices bought in Best Buy retail outlets. Or if Best Buy forced Apple to give it 30% of iCloud subscription fees for MacBooks sold from within Best Buy retail outlets, only after Apple implemented "Best Buy Payments" into it's MacOS software to ensure those fees were collected.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        The 30% cut is a 43% markup. Price your app accordingly. You can even price your subscriptions differently depending on where they subscribe. Apple tried exactly that - to let booksellers set their own prices and they just mark them up. That’s what the publishers wanted instead of Amazon’s pricing ebooks as a loss leader - devaluing the paperbacks and hardbacks. It was shot down by the justice department.
jonas21 6y ago
The issue is that you're not allowed to link to the non-IAP option from the app or even tell users that it exists. If most users are unaware they have the option, it's not really an option.
brandon272 6y ago
One major downside is that once you implement IAP in a cross platform proudct, you then have a different class of subscriptions occurring and being managed outside your platform. Subscriptions which have to conform to Apple's policies around renewal and cancellation. This introduces business, backend and accounting considerations.