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The fact that Apple is scrubbing text communications and discussing certain sensitive things with developers only over the phone is supremely shady. Deleting ol

The fact that Apple is scrubbing text communications and discussing certain sensitive things with developers only over the phone is supremely shady. Deleting old communications is a classic tactic employed by organizations that anticipate lawsuits and associated discovery. It's amazing that they've formulated a comprehensive set of internal business practices directed at sustaining this racket.

cheez 6y ago
their lawyers ain't cheap.
giancarlostoro 6y ago
Force Apple to communicate via email or other comms out of their control.
- whycombagator 6y ago
  How are you going to force Apple to do that?
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    You telling them your preferred medium of communication would be one way. See a sibling comment for the result of that alone in some situations.
- statictype 6y ago
  I had a long argument with Apple Support over their refusal to replace my shitty Macbook keyboard under their warranty program. Finally I asked them to give me their rejection in a formal email. Two days later the support person called back and said they made 'an exception' in my case and are happy to fix it under warranty.
  - verall 6y ago
    In this case it is because you need that rejection email in writing to go file a claim with your credit card and trigger your purchase protection. As soon as Apple (or whoever) thinks you will take this route, they are happy to limit their losses and replace it before you can file a claim that could result in chargeback.
    - _rs 6y ago
      Would credit card extended warranties and protection result in a charge back? I thought the credit card companies paid these out as benefits, and usually reserved for cards with annual fees.
      - zaksoup 6y ago
        There's two routes you could go down - file a warranty claim on a higher-end card that provides extended warranties. Cards usually also allow you to request a chargeback against defective goods for which a merchant refuses to make you whole. In this case you could probably call up Amex or whatever and say "I bought a laptop that is defective within the warranty period and apple refuses to RMA it, here's the proof..." and they'd do it no questions asked. I've done both of these things with Amex and Chase and it's usually a painless process for each. With the chargeback route, however, it's common for companies to retaliate by closing your accounts or otherwise refusing you service until you reverse the chargeback. If you actually tried to chargeback the macbook I wouldn't be surprised if you found yourself with a "your iCloud account will be closed in 30 days" email. When I charged back a local CSA for refusing to cancel my subscription without an onerous phone tree despite multiple emails I received a voicemail saying, very politely, "Your account is now closed but you will be banned from ever opening a new account with us in the future." Fine by me...
        dannyw 6y ago
        Australian here, in my card chargeback form there’s literally an option for “The good I received is defective and the seller has declined to remedy”.
14 6y ago
In Canada the law states that one person in the conversation must agree to the recording which means if you want to record yourself it is perfectly legal and no need to tell the other person you are recording. So if they did this to a Canadian developer they could record them without asking or letting Apple know.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
praptak 6y ago
> Deleting old communications is a classic tactic employed by organizations that anticipate lawsuits and associated discovery. Every sufficiently big organisation starts doing it soon after the first bogus lawsuit that costs them millions of dollars.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  As a trillion dollar company with hundreds of billions in the bank we can expect more from them. And if the legal system has perverse incentives that should be fixed through reform, not apathy.
  - praptak 6y ago
    I don't think that any reform of the legal system can get rid of people whose business model is litigation. You can't get rid of legal trolls without denying justice to actual victims of corporate wrongdoing. Also, I would be extremely suspicious of any reform of the legal system coming from megacorps. This is not to say the system cannot be improved, it's just wicked hard and you cannot blame any single actor for not doing that.
    - pedrorijo91 6y ago
      maybe it's time for ios developers to (temporary) remove their apps from the App Store as a protest? Taking 30% without providing alternatives to install apps seems totally unfair
- grumple 6y ago
  It’s not bogus if they lost the lawsuit.
- bibbitybobbity 6y ago
  Pointing out that this happens specifically when companies maximizes for prioritizes profit instead of the benefit of their product (which was what allowed them to gain such traction). It does feel prevalent in large corporations though.
fierarul 6y ago
I can confirm the only phone call I got from Apple was to explain why they can't accept my app. It was a small display test app / game which apparently is not allowed as the users might start thinking they have a defective product (and perhaps ask for a refund / replacement).

cheez 6y ago

their lawyers ain't cheap.

giancarlostoro 6y ago

Force Apple to communicate via email or other comms out of their control.

whycombagator 6y ago
How are you going to force Apple to do that?
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  You telling them your preferred medium of communication would be one way. See a sibling comment for the result of that alone in some situations.
statictype 6y ago
I had a long argument with Apple Support over their refusal to replace my shitty Macbook keyboard under their warranty program. Finally I asked them to give me their rejection in a formal email. Two days later the support person called back and said they made 'an exception' in my case and are happy to fix it under warranty.
- verall 6y ago
  In this case it is because you need that rejection email in writing to go file a claim with your credit card and trigger your purchase protection. As soon as Apple (or whoever) thinks you will take this route, they are happy to limit their losses and replace it before you can file a claim that could result in chargeback.
  - _rs 6y ago
    Would credit card extended warranties and protection result in a charge back? I thought the credit card companies paid these out as benefits, and usually reserved for cards with annual fees.
    - zaksoup 6y ago
      There's two routes you could go down - file a warranty claim on a higher-end card that provides extended warranties. Cards usually also allow you to request a chargeback against defective goods for which a merchant refuses to make you whole. In this case you could probably call up Amex or whatever and say "I bought a laptop that is defective within the warranty period and apple refuses to RMA it, here's the proof..." and they'd do it no questions asked. I've done both of these things with Amex and Chase and it's usually a painless process for each. With the chargeback route, however, it's common for companies to retaliate by closing your accounts or otherwise refusing you service until you reverse the chargeback. If you actually tried to chargeback the macbook I wouldn't be surprised if you found yourself with a "your iCloud account will be closed in 30 days" email. When I charged back a local CSA for refusing to cancel my subscription without an onerous phone tree despite multiple emails I received a voicemail saying, very politely, "Your account is now closed but you will be banned from ever opening a new account with us in the future." Fine by me...
      - dannyw 6y ago
        Australian here, in my card chargeback form there’s literally an option for “The good I received is defective and the seller has declined to remedy”.

14 6y ago

In Canada the law states that one person in the conversation must agree to the recording which means if you want to record yourself it is perfectly legal and no need to tell the other person you are recording. So if they did this to a Canadian developer they could record them without asking or letting Apple know.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

praptak 6y ago

> Deleting old communications is a classic tactic employed by organizations that anticipate lawsuits and associated discovery. Every sufficiently big organisation starts doing it soon after the first bogus lawsuit that costs them millions of dollars.

paulryanrogers 6y ago
As a trillion dollar company with hundreds of billions in the bank we can expect more from them. And if the legal system has perverse incentives that should be fixed through reform, not apathy.
- praptak 6y ago
  I don't think that any reform of the legal system can get rid of people whose business model is litigation. You can't get rid of legal trolls without denying justice to actual victims of corporate wrongdoing. Also, I would be extremely suspicious of any reform of the legal system coming from megacorps. This is not to say the system cannot be improved, it's just wicked hard and you cannot blame any single actor for not doing that.
  - pedrorijo91 6y ago
    maybe it's time for ios developers to (temporary) remove their apps from the App Store as a protest? Taking 30% without providing alternatives to install apps seems totally unfair
grumple 6y ago
It’s not bogus if they lost the lawsuit.
bibbitybobbity 6y ago
Pointing out that this happens specifically when companies maximizes for prioritizes profit instead of the benefit of their product (which was what allowed them to gain such traction). It does feel prevalent in large corporations though.

fierarul 6y ago

I can confirm the only phone call I got from Apple was to explain why they can't accept my app. It was a small display test app / game which apparently is not allowed as the users might start thinking they have a defective product (and perhaps ask for a refund / replacement).