3 ms·

> Basecamp knew what they were doing here - there's no way they can be in the wrong by the community, which comes off as disingenuous to me. Let's assume that

by Shank 6y ago

> Basecamp knew what they were doing here - there's no way they can be in the wrong by the community, which comes off as disingenuous to me. Let's assume that everything has been calculated. That DHH knew this would happen and that the whole thing was going to blow up the way it has. On that assumption, is it truly disingenuous to anyone but Apple? It seems like it only benefits customers and smaller businesses, at least economically. I can see the argument that the in-app purchase API is better and easier for customers to use. I actually really enjoy paying for things with Apple Pay. That benefit makes sense, from a consumer perspective. On the other hand though, a 30% commission benefits only Apple. If this was a 5% cut it would be expensive, but comparable to Stripe and Braintree, which fall in the 1-3% range. Even a 10% cut would be similar. In this scenario, Apple would get a substantial amount of cash, users would get the Apple Pay experience, and it would be easier for developers to stomach the cost. The fact of the matter is that the 30% amount is entirely arbitrary. That cost is either eaten by customers or by developers, and doesn't benefit anyone but Apple. Running the App Store isn't free. I can definitely see them asking for some amount of cash for bandwidth or maintenance, and I can see justifying _some_ percentage fee or some proportional fee. It's just that for a lot of people, 30% is exorbitant for the value offered.

harryh 6y ago
30% is exorbitant for the value offered. The value offered isn't the service of processing the payment or being listed in an app store directory. These are small things. What you're really paying for is the ability to access the iOS market: one of the largest and most successful platforms in the world. That has tremendous value.
- nico_h 6y ago
  yeah, but it's kinda self limiting. If the fee was 5% maybe netflix would still be offering subscriptions in the app. And there might be more paid app in the store. And spotify might not be pushing for antitrust in Europe. The kindle app might offer in app purchase. How many developers look at the fee, see the app they want to make and realize they would never be able to charge enough to make it worth it after the cut and the sales taxes? I think that's one reason the iPad software is not the success it could be.
  - harryh 6y ago
    Indeed, it is entirely possible that Apple is charging too much in some cases and reducing the quantity of interesting apps that might otherwise be built.
nico_h 6y ago
In Europe you have VAT around 20%, so about 50% of what the user's pay end up in the developer's account. Also it's Apple's decision to subsidize all the free app with fees from the paid apps. Why not charge some fee to free apps after 100k / 1 million downloads or something instead of having all the burden on the paid apps? They decided it's worth it to have this free stuff on the app store to juice up their numbers, so why should it be so expensive for paid apps developers? I'm not sure the support developers get from that 30% cut when they have app store problem really feel like it's worth it. There are so many more reasonable fees level and structures they could try, but no. They're stuck to that level from 2002 when apps were new.
syshum 6y ago
While running the app store is not free. People seem to forget that with out the app store then no one would buy the iPhone at all. Or a much smally subset of people would. I bet the number of iPhone that have zero apps is nearly 0 This idea that the only value the store has to apple.is the fees from app sales is missing the actual value of the store It makes the iPhone more valuable allowing them to charge a premium price for the hardware Their push of security and privacy in the store give the ecosystem more value. I know many people that have choosen to by iPhone over Android for this policy. The appstore is one of apples market separataing feature to sell the iphone

by Shank 6y ago

harryh 6y ago

30% is exorbitant for the value offered. The value offered isn't the service of processing the payment or being listed in an app store directory. These are small things. What you're really paying for is the ability to access the iOS market: one of the largest and most successful platforms in the world. That has tremendous value.

nico_h 6y ago
yeah, but it's kinda self limiting. If the fee was 5% maybe netflix would still be offering subscriptions in the app. And there might be more paid app in the store. And spotify might not be pushing for antitrust in Europe. The kindle app might offer in app purchase. How many developers look at the fee, see the app they want to make and realize they would never be able to charge enough to make it worth it after the cut and the sales taxes? I think that's one reason the iPad software is not the success it could be.
- harryh 6y ago
  Indeed, it is entirely possible that Apple is charging too much in some cases and reducing the quantity of interesting apps that might otherwise be built.

nico_h 6y ago

In Europe you have VAT around 20%, so about 50% of what the user's pay end up in the developer's account. Also it's Apple's decision to subsidize all the free app with fees from the paid apps. Why not charge some fee to free apps after 100k / 1 million downloads or something instead of having all the burden on the paid apps? They decided it's worth it to have this free stuff on the app store to juice up their numbers, so why should it be so expensive for paid apps developers? I'm not sure the support developers get from that 30% cut when they have app store problem really feel like it's worth it. There are so many more reasonable fees level and structures they could try, but no. They're stuck to that level from 2002 when apps were new.

syshum 6y ago

While running the app store is not free. People seem to forget that with out the app store then no one would buy the iPhone at all. Or a much smally subset of people would. I bet the number of iPhone that have zero apps is nearly 0 This idea that the only value the store has to apple.is the fees from app sales is missing the actual value of the store It makes the iPhone more valuable allowing them to charge a premium price for the hardware Their push of security and privacy in the store give the ecosystem more value. I know many people that have choosen to by iPhone over Android for this policy. The appstore is one of apples market separataing feature to sell the iphone