5 ms·

There’s an exponentially growing recruiting, training, and hiring industry based on developers who only know how to write fat JS frontends. I think everyone has

There’s an exponentially growing recruiting, training, and hiring industry based on developers who only know how to write fat JS frontends. I think everyone has probably experienced high growth in their company’s frontend team. Many developers choose to write them not out of expertise but to have them in their resume and for job security.

arcturus17 6y ago
Many of us also choose to write it because it’s fun and the results can be excellent.
- esperent 6y ago
  Nobody denies React and co. are excellent tools. The frustration occurs when people who enjoy these tools claim that, if you choose not to use them, or suggest they're not fit for a certain task, you're WRONG. In the case of React in particular, this happens a lot. Then of course the people who don't want to use a framework feel frustrated, and next thing you know it's a flame war. I've seen this happen multiple times on Twitter.
  - iphone_elegance 6y ago
    I run into very few people who claim this.. oh you mean on Twitter? well there's the problem.
    - esperent 6y ago
      Twitter is where a large percentage of web devs hang out. If something is problematic, you can't dismiss it as "but that's just Twitter". If it's a common mode of discourse on Twitter, then it's legitimately a part of developer culture. In any case, discussions around front end frameworks and especially React are scarcely any better here. Although they are usually politer at least.
      - globular-toast 6y ago
        > Twitter is where a large percentage of web devs hang out Source?
      - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
        > Twitter is where a large percentage of web devs hang out This isn't true, Twitter is a place where a large percentage of Twitter users who are interested in web development talk about it. Twitter is not a lens on the entire internet, it is a lens on a bubble of a bubble.
  - JustSomeNobody 6y ago
    This happened when Mongo started getting popular, too. Mongo supporters would get nasty if you suggested using a relational database. That, eventually, cooled off. Hopefully this "React or nothing" phase will too.
JohnBooty 6y ago
developers who only know how to write fat JS frontends Yeah. This is often a big challenge for small companies / small teams. Nearly every web app is now two apps, and it's increasingly infeasible for any developer to have a mastery of both backend and frontend stacks. Not necessarily a terrible problem when you have dozens of developers, but a lot of dev teams are 1-3 people. Instead of web dev circa 2010 where you might reasonably have a 3-person team of people who can each individually work anywhere in the stack, now your already-small team is bifurcated. In many ways this is an inevitable price of progress... 100 years ago you had one doctor in town and they could understand some reasonable percentage of the day's medical knowledge. Today, we can work medical miracles, but it requires extreme specialization. At least in the development industry, we can choose not to pay that price when it's not necessary.
- arcturus17 6y ago
  I don’t understand why members of a dev team back in the day would’ve been more capable of being full-stack than today... The front/back divide also existed back then, with barely any possibility of a front person ever touching the back-end (a possibility that exists nowadays, without going into its merits or demerits). For a reasonably ambitious and industrious individual nowadays it’s not unreasonable to become really good at one client and one server technology. There’s more to it than writing server-side code with HTML templating for presentation, for sure, but it remains well within the grasp of many people.
  - slightwinder 6y ago
    > I don’t understand why members of a dev team back in the day would’ve been more capable of being full-stack than today... Because the stack in the old days was smaller and level of quality was far lower. In the '90s there was no css and javascript, nor did anyone care for accesability, multiple languages, security or interactive features. In the old days we had real documents with links and simple structure, not apps and mature frameworks. It was something on the level you get today with simple markup like markdown or org-mode.
  - dsparkman 6y ago

arcturus17 6y ago

Many of us also choose to write it because it’s fun and the results can be excellent.

esperent 6y ago
Nobody denies React and co. are excellent tools. The frustration occurs when people who enjoy these tools claim that, if you choose not to use them, or suggest they're not fit for a certain task, you're WRONG. In the case of React in particular, this happens a lot. Then of course the people who don't want to use a framework feel frustrated, and next thing you know it's a flame war. I've seen this happen multiple times on Twitter.
- iphone_elegance 6y ago
  I run into very few people who claim this.. oh you mean on Twitter? well there's the problem.
  - esperent 6y ago
    Twitter is where a large percentage of web devs hang out. If something is problematic, you can't dismiss it as "but that's just Twitter". If it's a common mode of discourse on Twitter, then it's legitimately a part of developer culture. In any case, discussions around front end frameworks and especially React are scarcely any better here. Although they are usually politer at least.
    - globular-toast 6y ago
      > Twitter is where a large percentage of web devs hang out Source?
    - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
      > Twitter is where a large percentage of web devs hang out This isn't true, Twitter is a place where a large percentage of Twitter users who are interested in web development talk about it. Twitter is not a lens on the entire internet, it is a lens on a bubble of a bubble.
- JustSomeNobody 6y ago
  This happened when Mongo started getting popular, too. Mongo supporters would get nasty if you suggested using a relational database. That, eventually, cooled off. Hopefully this "React or nothing" phase will too.

JohnBooty 6y ago

developers who only know how to write fat JS frontends Yeah. This is often a big challenge for small companies / small teams. Nearly every web app is now two apps, and it's increasingly infeasible for any developer to have a mastery of both backend and frontend stacks. Not necessarily a terrible problem when you have dozens of developers, but a lot of dev teams are 1-3 people. Instead of web dev circa 2010 where you might reasonably have a 3-person team of people who can each individually work anywhere in the stack, now your already-small team is bifurcated. In many ways this is an inevitable price of progress... 100 years ago you had one doctor in town and they could understand some reasonable percentage of the day's medical knowledge. Today, we can work medical miracles, but it requires extreme specialization. At least in the development industry, we can choose not to pay that price when it's not necessary.

arcturus17 6y ago
I don’t understand why members of a dev team back in the day would’ve been more capable of being full-stack than today... The front/back divide also existed back then, with barely any possibility of a front person ever touching the back-end (a possibility that exists nowadays, without going into its merits or demerits). For a reasonably ambitious and industrious individual nowadays it’s not unreasonable to become really good at one client and one server technology. There’s more to it than writing server-side code with HTML templating for presentation, for sure, but it remains well within the grasp of many people.
- slightwinder 6y ago
  > I don’t understand why members of a dev team back in the day would’ve been more capable of being full-stack than today... Because the stack in the old days was smaller and level of quality was far lower. In the '90s there was no css and javascript, nor did anyone care for accesability, multiple languages, security or interactive features. In the old days we had real documents with links and simple structure, not apps and mature frameworks. It was something on the level you get today with simple markup like markdown or org-mode.
- dsparkman 6y ago