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> if one private issuer's money gets debased, but there are multiple different private issuers, such as banks, people can simply stop using the money from the b

by acqq 6y ago

> if one private issuer's money gets debased, but there are multiple different private issuers, such as banks, people can simply stop using the money from the bank that debases it. The problem is, a big part of the value in the economy never gets to be an explicitly "issued" money, and that was so even many centuries ago. So your belief in the magic of the "hard" issued money appears to me to be just a wishful thinking, even without the historical support since the earliest times. Different forms of debts are older than any precisely defined issued money, and all the forms of debts are what actually drove the economies. Most famously, the period of democracy in Athens started only after Solon abolished the accumulated debts, which speaks a lot about the dynamic of their economy during all the times before that point was reached. It appears to me that sooner or later the current world will have to accept that we need a Solon-like act to end the period we're in.

pdonis 6y ago
> a big part of the value in the economy never gets to be an explicitly "issued" money For an appropriate definition of "value", yes, I'll agree with this. However, I don't see how it conflicts with anything I said. > Different forms of debts are older than any precisely defined issued money, and all the forms of debts are what actually drove the economies. Debt certainly plays a role in how economies develop. However, again, I don't see how that conflicts with anything I said. > the period of democracy in Athens started only after Solon abolished the accumulated debts First, I don't think historians are in agreement about exactly what Solon did and whether it amounted to abolishing all accumulated debts. Second, while many historians credit Solon with laying the foundations for Athenian democracy, it did not actually start until well after Solon's death, after a considerable period of autocratic rule following the seizure of power by Peisistratos. So even if we grant that Solon abolished all accumulated debts, I don't see any clear connection between that and democracy. > sooner or later the current world will have to accept that we need a Solon-like act to end the period we're in Meaning, abolish the accumulated debts? That's basically what the US government is doing to its debt by continuing to print money; since all of the US government's debt, and pretty much all of US private sector debt, is denominated in dollars, printing more dollars dilutes the impact of all that debt on the debtors. It's not clear to me that this is a good thing. Of course, it's also not clear to me that continuing to accumulate debt is a good thing. But while the current financial and economic system certainly has plenty of issues, I don't see how "abolish all accumulated debts" is a good way to fix them.

by acqq 6y ago

pdonis 6y ago

> a big part of the value in the economy never gets to be an explicitly "issued" money For an appropriate definition of "value", yes, I'll agree with this. However, I don't see how it conflicts with anything I said. > Different forms of debts are older than any precisely defined issued money, and all the forms of debts are what actually drove the economies. Debt certainly plays a role in how economies develop. However, again, I don't see how that conflicts with anything I said. > the period of democracy in Athens started only after Solon abolished the accumulated debts First, I don't think historians are in agreement about exactly what Solon did and whether it amounted to abolishing all accumulated debts. Second, while many historians credit Solon with laying the foundations for Athenian democracy, it did not actually start until well after Solon's death, after a considerable period of autocratic rule following the seizure of power by Peisistratos. So even if we grant that Solon abolished all accumulated debts, I don't see any clear connection between that and democracy. > sooner or later the current world will have to accept that we need a Solon-like act to end the period we're in Meaning, abolish the accumulated debts? That's basically what the US government is doing to its debt by continuing to print money; since all of the US government's debt, and pretty much all of US private sector debt, is denominated in dollars, printing more dollars dilutes the impact of all that debt on the debtors. It's not clear to me that this is a good thing. Of course, it's also not clear to me that continuing to accumulate debt is a good thing. But while the current financial and economic system certainly has plenty of issues, I don't see how "abolish all accumulated debts" is a good way to fix them.