4 ms·

Microsoft says antitrust bodies need to review Apple App Store

50 points by elsewhen 6y ago

1cvmask 6y ago
A simple solution for Antitrust authorities would be to allow users to download apps from outside the app store like on Android phones.
- skinnymuch 6y ago
  Do people do that on Android in the countries where Apple has more than a 1/3 share? I’m not sure of the exact countries, but there’s likely only a handful. Other issues arise based on the app too. Like Hey’s app fight. I’d think any area with a culture to side load apps wouldn’t be a place that would get too many people [able to be] paying $100/yr service.
  - bitwize 6y ago
    F-Droid is a thing. Amazon had its own app store for Fire devices. Gamers sideloaded Fortnite onto their Android devices. It's not super common, but it happens.
    - RealStickman_ 6y ago
      While we're at it, there should be an officially supported API for app stores so you don't have to root your phone and install privilege extensions just to get the same convenience with F-Droid as with the Play Store.
  - fceccon 6y ago
    Android phones sold in China don't have access to the Google Play Store so every phone manufacturer has their own store. Some apps (like Feiliao, ByteDance alternative to wechat) are distributed as .apk directly from the app website.
koheripbal 6y ago
The huge tech companies that have emerged in the last couple decades have been anti-competitive than Microsoft ever was. Remembering back to the Microsoft Internet Explorer vs US Gov't anti-trust case is almost comical next to the trillion dollar app monopolies that Google and Apple have setup. As endless threads talk about the free-speech vs hate-speech angle, the real damage is being done thru these near-monopoly/oligopoly tech companies. The governments of the world are either going to co-opt them into puppets or force their break-up. ...at least I hope it's one of those two, because the alternative is for them to take over and obviate any democracy we have left.
- s3r3nity 6y ago
  >trillion dollar app monopolies that Google and Apple have setup. How does Apple have a monopoly? They only own 25% mobile market share globally.[1] [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    First of all, the jurisdiction of the US justice department means you need to look at the percentage market of smart phones in the US - not globally and not on non-smart phones. But more importantly - It is no different that when Microsoft tied Internet Explorer to Windows. They didn't have a monopoly either - and you don't need one to run foul of anti-trust laws. To break the law, you simply need to use your position to put anti-competitive pressure on your competitors, exactly by pressuring and tying products together like Apple has done. The only reason phone manufacturers have forced users to their app store is exactly to create a little monopoly on their platform.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >But more importantly - It is no different that when Microsoft tied Internet Explorer to Windows. They didn't have a monopoly either - and you don't need one to run foul of anti-trust laws. They did. Windows had > 98% of the desktop market.
whereistimbo 6y ago
> Microsoft Corp. President Brad Smith said it’s time for antitrust regulators in the U.S. and Europe to discuss tactics that app stores use to take advantage of those who want to distribute their software. I agree. Microsoft store on Windows 10 should accept browser engine other than Microsoft Edge like Firefox. It's insane on Windows 10S you can't use any other browser other than Microsoft Edge.
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  Has Firefox released a UWP version for the windows store?
  - shakna 6y ago
    > No. When you're using Windows 10 in S mode, Microsoft Edge is always the default web browser, and Bing is the default search engine. But you can access other browsers and search engines while in S mode. You can download any browser available in the Microsoft Store in Windows, and you can navigate to any other search engine website. [0] Would it matter if it did, considering that it cannot become the default browser? If you cannot modify the default (without permanently switching out of S mode) then in all likelihood, even if you have downloaded a different browser, you'll end up using the default eventually. [0] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4020089/windows-10-in-s-mode-faq https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4020089/windows-10-...
    - JamesBarney 6y ago
      I think it matters whether a platform disallows an app or just disallows setting that app to default.
bitwize 6y ago
Microsoft, like many companies, wants the law to work one way for themselves and another way for their competitors. Fun fact: Microsoft filed an amicus brief in favor of Google in Oracle v. Google. Yet in the 90s, they themselves asserted copyright over an API when Sun tried to get the Windows API published as an ECMA standard.
- chirau 6y ago
  What you mean? They were punished for a crime and now are asking if someone doing similar things to what they previously did (not anymore) should not face consequences as well. If I ran a red light 10 years ago, and got ticketed, surely I can demand that you be ticketed as well if you run a red light today.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Barrin92 6y ago
Imagine if Microsoft would have shut down every external program on windows and charged every software developer 30% merely for running software on windows. That's the world of app stores and Apple and Google. I have absolutely no idea why Microsoft is often hated, despite the fact that I can run whatever I want on my windows machine, compile software, download stuff from the internet, doesn't matter, and that's despite almost universal market share for decades. Windows at the end of the day may be proprietary software and they've pulled their share of nonsense but Windows was pretty much always a genuine platform that lets you do what you want. The state of the smartphone market is unacceptable.
- jbverschoor 6y ago
  It would’ve been great. No malware on windows. No shady creditcard transfers
  - RealStickman_ 6y ago
    The fact that there are apps in both stores that turn out to be malware makes this claim demonstrably false.
- HacklesRaised 6y ago
  It's a bit like GW Bush, now that you have Trump you forget how awful he was (Patriot Act, War in Iraq, ...).
perryizgr8 6y ago
Microsoft should know. They got burned to the tune of tens of billions of $ trying to fight against Apple/Google duopoly with Windows Phone. I still miss it. It was truly a better designed system than both ios and android.

50 points by elsewhen 6y ago

A simple solution for Antitrust authorities would be to allow users to download apps from outside the app store like on Android phones.

skinnymuch 6y ago
Do people do that on Android in the countries where Apple has more than a 1/3 share? I’m not sure of the exact countries, but there’s likely only a handful. Other issues arise based on the app too. Like Hey’s app fight. I’d think any area with a culture to side load apps wouldn’t be a place that would get too many people [able to be] paying $100/yr service.
- bitwize 6y ago
  F-Droid is a thing. Amazon had its own app store for Fire devices. Gamers sideloaded Fortnite onto their Android devices. It's not super common, but it happens.
  - RealStickman_ 6y ago
    While we're at it, there should be an officially supported API for app stores so you don't have to root your phone and install privilege extensions just to get the same convenience with F-Droid as with the Play Store.
- fceccon 6y ago
  Android phones sold in China don't have access to the Google Play Store so every phone manufacturer has their own store. Some apps (like Feiliao, ByteDance alternative to wechat) are distributed as .apk directly from the app website.

koheripbal 6y ago

The huge tech companies that have emerged in the last couple decades have been anti-competitive than Microsoft ever was. Remembering back to the Microsoft Internet Explorer vs US Gov't anti-trust case is almost comical next to the trillion dollar app monopolies that Google and Apple have setup. As endless threads talk about the free-speech vs hate-speech angle, the real damage is being done thru these near-monopoly/oligopoly tech companies. The governments of the world are either going to co-opt them into puppets or force their break-up. ...at least I hope it's one of those two, because the alternative is for them to take over and obviate any democracy we have left.

s3r3nity 6y ago
>trillion dollar app monopolies that Google and Apple have setup. How does Apple have a monopoly? They only own 25% mobile market share globally.[1] [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide
- koheripbal 6y ago
  First of all, the jurisdiction of the US justice department means you need to look at the percentage market of smart phones in the US - not globally and not on non-smart phones. But more importantly - It is no different that when Microsoft tied Internet Explorer to Windows. They didn't have a monopoly either - and you don't need one to run foul of anti-trust laws. To break the law, you simply need to use your position to put anti-competitive pressure on your competitors, exactly by pressuring and tying products together like Apple has done. The only reason phone manufacturers have forced users to their app store is exactly to create a little monopoly on their platform.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >But more importantly - It is no different that when Microsoft tied Internet Explorer to Windows. They didn't have a monopoly either - and you don't need one to run foul of anti-trust laws. They did. Windows had > 98% of the desktop market.

whereistimbo 6y ago

> Microsoft Corp. President Brad Smith said it’s time for antitrust regulators in the U.S. and Europe to discuss tactics that app stores use to take advantage of those who want to distribute their software. I agree. Microsoft store on Windows 10 should accept browser engine other than Microsoft Edge like Firefox. It's insane on Windows 10S you can't use any other browser other than Microsoft Edge.

JamesBarney 6y ago
Has Firefox released a UWP version for the windows store?
- shakna 6y ago
  > No. When you're using Windows 10 in S mode, Microsoft Edge is always the default web browser, and Bing is the default search engine. But you can access other browsers and search engines while in S mode. You can download any browser available in the Microsoft Store in Windows, and you can navigate to any other search engine website. [0] Would it matter if it did, considering that it cannot become the default browser? If you cannot modify the default (without permanently switching out of S mode) then in all likelihood, even if you have downloaded a different browser, you'll end up using the default eventually. [0] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4020089/windows-10-in-s-mode-faq https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4020089/windows-10-...
  - JamesBarney 6y ago
    I think it matters whether a platform disallows an app or just disallows setting that app to default.

bitwize 6y ago

Microsoft, like many companies, wants the law to work one way for themselves and another way for their competitors. Fun fact: Microsoft filed an amicus brief in favor of Google in Oracle v. Google. Yet in the 90s, they themselves asserted copyright over an API when Sun tried to get the Windows API published as an ECMA standard.

chirau 6y ago
What you mean? They were punished for a crime and now are asking if someone doing similar things to what they previously did (not anymore) should not face consequences as well. If I ran a red light 10 years ago, and got ticketed, surely I can demand that you be ticketed as well if you run a red light today.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Barrin92 6y ago

Imagine if Microsoft would have shut down every external program on windows and charged every software developer 30% merely for running software on windows. That's the world of app stores and Apple and Google. I have absolutely no idea why Microsoft is often hated, despite the fact that I can run whatever I want on my windows machine, compile software, download stuff from the internet, doesn't matter, and that's despite almost universal market share for decades. Windows at the end of the day may be proprietary software and they've pulled their share of nonsense but Windows was pretty much always a genuine platform that lets you do what you want. The state of the smartphone market is unacceptable.

jbverschoor 6y ago
It would’ve been great. No malware on windows. No shady creditcard transfers
- RealStickman_ 6y ago
  The fact that there are apps in both stores that turn out to be malware makes this claim demonstrably false.
HacklesRaised 6y ago
It's a bit like GW Bush, now that you have Trump you forget how awful he was (Patriot Act, War in Iraq, ...).

perryizgr8 6y ago

Microsoft should know. They got burned to the tune of tens of billions of $ trying to fight against Apple/Google duopoly with Windows Phone. I still miss it. It was truly a better designed system than both ios and android.