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It's good to see people in the tech circle thinking about China. China's rise to dominance is unquestionable now. The current US administration has failed miser

It's good to see people in the tech circle thinking about China. China's rise to dominance is unquestionable now. The current US administration has failed miserably. In the past 4 years, China has made gains on all fronts. I don't think they suffered any setback. The US does not seem to have a coherent strategy to counter this trend. The trade war was lauded as an achievement. But it has failed. The US is now going back to something similar to TPP, a policy championed by the previous administration. One step forward, 2 steps backward. This pandemic started in China. But they somehow turned the table back to the US. The virus has done more damage to the US than China. The US leadership is incompetent. The government and the Fed are fixated on keeping the S&P 500 index. Tech investors make calls to build. Then, they invest in the next app trend. People seem to lose their moral compass. I think in the near future, the US won't be able to print money to fix its problems. China seems to play a war of attrition. It engages the US in small conflicts and tends to drag them out. The US is the top dog. So it wants to win all of its battles. These conflicts distract the US from the big picture. The US is fighting fires on all fronts. Then China slowly makes gains.

colinmhayes 6y ago
It all comes back to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0. It's easy to blame our leaders, but we choose our leaders. The real problem is our culture of entitlement and bigotry which celebrates naivety. Yes, Trump's corona response was terrible, but in the end the problem is the huge number of people who not only refuse to wear a mask/quarantine but put considerable effort into mocking those who do.
free_rms 6y ago
The last time China "engaged" the US in a conflict was Vietnam, I think? What do you mean by "engage"?
- albntomat0 6y ago
  "Engage in a conflict" does not strictly mean a military conflict. The parent poster most likely means political and economic ones.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - free_rms 6y ago
    By that definition, we engage in conflicts with Canada over softwood lumber. It's.. not interesting. There are interesting things about our relationship with China, but the lowest-possible-definition for 'conflict' is not it.
    - albntomat0 6y ago
      I mean, that's the definition. Like anything else, the seriousness is based on the context, aided by the writer's word choice.
kiba 6y ago
China seems to be gaining strength at the moment, yes. But let not forget their weaknesses, while not ignoring our strength and weakness. Remember, Taiwan and South Korea performed well during the pandemic, and they're both democracies.
- _bxg1 6y ago
  It's not about authoritarianism vs democracy. It's about energized new blood vs an old, arrogant, decaying shamble of a nation that can do nothing but cling desperately to the visage of "greatness" that it presumes to deserve. I'm terrified of a China-dominated world, but by no means do I think the U.S. has done anything to deserve keeping its position.
kirse 6y ago
China's rise to dominance is unquestionable now. The current US administration has failed miserably. Breathe into a bag, dude. You and everyone else fear-mongering in here. China has a lot of talent, but they also consist of a government that controls its people and stifles their freedoms on every possible level. And because of that their innovation will always be constrained. An un-free people is an un-innovative people. The US has one great thing that no other country has, and it's why we're still the only country to put a man on the moon, to land rockets backwards onto a floating platform, to continue to shift the landscape in transportation, and why Google and Facebook and Microsoft still dominate the net landscape, while the best China can do is make their garbage rip-offs and steal the hard-won intellectual property that we continue to churn out. It's also why Beijing often has a thick fog of pollution, and why you can protest, speak, and worship in this country without being thrown into a re-education camp. Any guesses on what that thing is? That thing that keeps people in the US innovating and churning out fresh material that China can only steal? It's because the US is a country unified by a set of ideas, not borders drawn around a people group. The key governing concept that man is free to pursue their own happiness and shape their destiny. Man irresistibly is drawn to freedom, and until the CCP releases its grasp on its citizens' freedom, their dominance is only an illusion. Stop pushing a narrative based on fear.
- zaptheimpaler 6y ago
  Its funny to see all the subtle racism come pouring back as soon as the west feels threatened. "the best China can do is make their garbage rip-offs and steal the hard-won intellectual property" - typical western superiority bullshit. Why don't you go to a country and live there for a year before regurgitating uninformed cliches like this? I doubt you have any real understanding at all about what daily life is like in China. Somehow its inconceivable that any other country besides the mighty and noble 'Murca can innovate lol. Believe me, there are plenty of countries with far far more innovative public infrastructure like transport. Many countries with more "innovative" health systems in that you don't die or go bankrupt without insurance. When all the xenophobia and fear stops the trickle of immigrants into the US, they will understand what drove innovation was not some magical freedom that 90% of democracies have, it was talented people from all over the globe.
patfla 6y ago
> turned the table back to the US "back" is incorrect - not a native English speaker. Who says Chinese disinformation doesn't need to reach as far as ycombinator news? I agree with little to none of your strategic assessment. China has come a long ways - it's no longer a paper tiger. Let's say it's now a reinforced cardboard tiger. China's demographic profile now skews _older_ than the US.
jonathannat 6y ago
Posted this in another thread: It seems that China is picking fights with everybody....and losing. Against Canada, China threatened Canada for actions taken against huawei's CFO with trade punishment. The case is proceeding, with US clearing a major hurdle to extradite the CFO recently. Against EU, China has tried to lure countries such as Italy and Spain to its side by delivering mostly faulty masks and machines, in turn for declaration of unity. EU this week won a landmark WTO dispute against China, and allow EU to combat low-price Chinese exports with high tariffs. Germany moves to shield german companies from foreign takeover recently as well. Against UK, China threatened to punish UK economically for offering citizenships to Hong Kong citizens and denying huawei's involvement with 5G. UK in turn, has decided to ban huawei entirely by 2022. And allowing Ericcson to proceed. Against Japan, China has been aggressive against Senkaku island, sending two ships to pursue a fishing boat in May. Japan, in term, is pulling its companies out of China by funding $2.2B stimulus package. Against India, this month they engaged in a deadly border clash where many Indian soldiers were maimed/killed by Chinese soldiers with spiked clubs. #boycottchina went viral in India, and multinationals must be quivering that the largest/fastest growing consumers are boycotting goods made in China. So is China. Even Chinese government's mouthpiece, global times, is subtly suggesting India should 'curb' boycotting china. Against Taiwan, they sponsored a pro-China presidential candidate who was a mayor. That candidate lost horribly in the presidential election and was subsequently impeached by the people and stripped of his mayorship. Most Taiwanese now favor independence. Against Australia, China is punishing Australia with barley, beef, and coal ban after Australia called for a 127 countries investigation into coronavirus origin.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't copy/paste comments on HN. It strictly lowers the signal/noise ratio. If you want to refer to something you said elsewhere, that's what links are for. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20copy%20paste&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's not what this site is for, it's repetitive, and it's nasty. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

colinmhayes 6y ago

It all comes back to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0. It's easy to blame our leaders, but we choose our leaders. The real problem is our culture of entitlement and bigotry which celebrates naivety. Yes, Trump's corona response was terrible, but in the end the problem is the huge number of people who not only refuse to wear a mask/quarantine but put considerable effort into mocking those who do.

free_rms 6y ago

The last time China "engaged" the US in a conflict was Vietnam, I think? What do you mean by "engage"?

albntomat0 6y ago
"Engage in a conflict" does not strictly mean a military conflict. The parent poster most likely means political and economic ones.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- free_rms 6y ago
  By that definition, we engage in conflicts with Canada over softwood lumber. It's.. not interesting. There are interesting things about our relationship with China, but the lowest-possible-definition for 'conflict' is not it.
  - albntomat0 6y ago
    I mean, that's the definition. Like anything else, the seriousness is based on the context, aided by the writer's word choice.

kiba 6y ago

China seems to be gaining strength at the moment, yes. But let not forget their weaknesses, while not ignoring our strength and weakness. Remember, Taiwan and South Korea performed well during the pandemic, and they're both democracies.

_bxg1 6y ago
It's not about authoritarianism vs democracy. It's about energized new blood vs an old, arrogant, decaying shamble of a nation that can do nothing but cling desperately to the visage of "greatness" that it presumes to deserve. I'm terrified of a China-dominated world, but by no means do I think the U.S. has done anything to deserve keeping its position.

kirse 6y ago

China's rise to dominance is unquestionable now. The current US administration has failed miserably. Breathe into a bag, dude. You and everyone else fear-mongering in here. China has a lot of talent, but they also consist of a government that controls its people and stifles their freedoms on every possible level. And because of that their innovation will always be constrained. An un-free people is an un-innovative people. The US has one great thing that no other country has, and it's why we're still the only country to put a man on the moon, to land rockets backwards onto a floating platform, to continue to shift the landscape in transportation, and why Google and Facebook and Microsoft still dominate the net landscape, while the best China can do is make their garbage rip-offs and steal the hard-won intellectual property that we continue to churn out. It's also why Beijing often has a thick fog of pollution, and why you can protest, speak, and worship in this country without being thrown into a re-education camp. Any guesses on what that thing is? That thing that keeps people in the US innovating and churning out fresh material that China can only steal? It's because the US is a country unified by a set of ideas, not borders drawn around a people group. The key governing concept that man is free to pursue their own happiness and shape their destiny. Man irresistibly is drawn to freedom, and until the CCP releases its grasp on its citizens' freedom, their dominance is only an illusion. Stop pushing a narrative based on fear.

zaptheimpaler 6y ago
Its funny to see all the subtle racism come pouring back as soon as the west feels threatened. "the best China can do is make their garbage rip-offs and steal the hard-won intellectual property" - typical western superiority bullshit. Why don't you go to a country and live there for a year before regurgitating uninformed cliches like this? I doubt you have any real understanding at all about what daily life is like in China. Somehow its inconceivable that any other country besides the mighty and noble 'Murca can innovate lol. Believe me, there are plenty of countries with far far more innovative public infrastructure like transport. Many countries with more "innovative" health systems in that you don't die or go bankrupt without insurance. When all the xenophobia and fear stops the trickle of immigrants into the US, they will understand what drove innovation was not some magical freedom that 90% of democracies have, it was talented people from all over the globe.

patfla 6y ago

> turned the table back to the US "back" is incorrect - not a native English speaker. Who says Chinese disinformation doesn't need to reach as far as ycombinator news? I agree with little to none of your strategic assessment. China has come a long ways - it's no longer a paper tiger. Let's say it's now a reinforced cardboard tiger. China's demographic profile now skews _older_ than the US.

jonathannat 6y ago

Posted this in another thread: It seems that China is picking fights with everybody....and losing. Against Canada, China threatened Canada for actions taken against huawei's CFO with trade punishment. The case is proceeding, with US clearing a major hurdle to extradite the CFO recently. Against EU, China has tried to lure countries such as Italy and Spain to its side by delivering mostly faulty masks and machines, in turn for declaration of unity. EU this week won a landmark WTO dispute against China, and allow EU to combat low-price Chinese exports with high tariffs. Germany moves to shield german companies from foreign takeover recently as well. Against UK, China threatened to punish UK economically for offering citizenships to Hong Kong citizens and denying huawei's involvement with 5G. UK in turn, has decided to ban huawei entirely by 2022. And allowing Ericcson to proceed. Against Japan, China has been aggressive against Senkaku island, sending two ships to pursue a fishing boat in May. Japan, in term, is pulling its companies out of China by funding $2.2B stimulus package. Against India, this month they engaged in a deadly border clash where many Indian soldiers were maimed/killed by Chinese soldiers with spiked clubs. #boycottchina went viral in India, and multinationals must be quivering that the largest/fastest growing consumers are boycotting goods made in China. So is China. Even Chinese government's mouthpiece, global times, is subtly suggesting India should 'curb' boycotting china. Against Taiwan, they sponsored a pro-China presidential candidate who was a mayor. That candidate lost horribly in the presidential election and was subsequently impeached by the people and stripped of his mayorship. Most Taiwanese now favor independence. Against Australia, China is punishing Australia with barley, beef, and coal ban after Australia called for a 127 countries investigation into coronavirus origin.

dang 6y ago
Please don't copy/paste comments on HN. It strictly lowers the signal/noise ratio. If you want to refer to something you said elsewhere, that's what links are for. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20copy%20paste&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

dang 6y ago

Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's not what this site is for, it's repetitive, and it's nasty. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html