4 ms·

That's bullshit, softly put. Google and Microsoft have gotten more heat for doing less monopolistic stuff.

throw0101a 6y ago
Google and Microsoft control(ed) more of the markets that they operated in: in the 1990s to 2000s what percentage of PCs ran Windows? What percentage of search does Google have? Apple/iOS currently has less that 20%: * https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/blogs/devices/smartphones/smart-phones/2020/04/30/global-smartphone-shipments-fall-17-percent-in-q1-2020 https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/blogs/d... * https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... * https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor Android, split across multiple manufacturers, has >80%.
- Avamander 6y ago
  Apple/iOS has 100% on their platform. Noone stopped you back then from buying an Apple PC, installing Linux or BSD etc. either. Noone stopped you from installing an alternative browser on either Windows or Android, yet they got slapped for it.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    This is like saying McDonald's have a monopoly because you can only buy McDonalds in a McDonalds restaurant... go somewhere else if you don't want the McDonalds menu.
    - Avamander 6y ago
      Your analogy is just blatantly incorrect from the developer's perspective, very user-centric. You can't choose not to sell "patties" "McDonalds" if you want to actually sell your "patties". And as I said, people were just as free to install other browsers than IE on Windows and Chrome on Android, but it was still considered bad monopolistic behaviour and they got punished for it.
      - throw0101a 6y ago
        > And as I said, people were just as free to install other browsers than IE on Windows Check the ruling against Microsoft: they were slapped down for this because they had a monopoly in the field of PCs / computers, and they (tried to) leveraged that monopoly into a monopoly for browsers. Android is the dominant smartphone platform (per units shipped), so Google is closer being considered a monopoly. Apple does not have a monopoly in smartphones or computers, so I'm failing to see how any parallels here. The best argument you can hope to make is that a duopoly exists between Android and iOS, and the duopoly together should be treated as monopoly for practical purposes. But claiming monopolistic behaviours and associated restrictions on a company that has 20% of the market is silly.
        Avamander 6y ago
        > But claiming monopolistic behaviours and associated restrictions on a company that has 20% of the market is silly. iPhones have a majority of the marketshare in the US. It's silly to ignore that. > Check the ruling against Microsoft: they were slapped down for this because they had a monopoly in the field of PCs / computers, and they (tried to) leveraged that monopoly into a monopoly for browsers. If we follow your logic, there were other platforms that did not run MS Windows. They only had a monopoly on Windows computers.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        throw0101a 6y ago
        > iPhones have a majority of the marketshare in the US. It's silly to ignore that. Looks like 50/50, at most: * https://www.statista.com/statistics/620805/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/620805/ Maybe Android even has a little more: * https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... If the government wants to regulate the duopolist together as a monopoly, then let us say so and argue the pros/cons of that strategy. But saying that iOS has a monopoly when they do not is what is silly. > If we follow your logic, there were other platforms that did not run MS Windows. They only had a monopoly on Windows computers. If Sun had a monopoly on scientific workstations, and they tried to leverage that to crush competition in another market, then that would make sense. But the only market in which there was a monopoly was consumer PCs, Microsoft had it, and they were found guilty of abusing it: > The plaintiffs alleged that Microsoft had abused monopoly power on Intel-based personal computers in its handling of operating system and web browser integration. The issue central to the case was whether Microsoft was allowed to bundle its flagship Internet Explorer (IE) web browser software with its Windows operating system. Bundling them is alleged to have been responsible for Microsoft's victory in the browser wars as every Windows user had a copy of IE. It was further alleged that this restricted the market for competing web browsers (such as Netscape Navigator or Opera), since it typically took a while to download or purchase such software at a store. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....
chrisseaton 6y ago
> That's bullshit Can you buy an alternative product and have nothing to do with Apple's store? Yes. They aren't a monopoly. Are they a big player? Yes. But they aren't a monopoly. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Vote with your dollars and impressions.
- e_y_ 6y ago
  I'd call it a duopoly, which is not as bad as a monopoly but it's definitely enough to set market prices and arguably should subject them to antitrust scrutiny for anti-competitive behavior. They have more than 50% of global app sales revenue; Apple's App Store revenue is about 80% higher than Google Play. They also have about 57% of the "premium" ($400+) smartphone market. That has a strong impact on the ability for developers to create and sell apps. Not to say that Google is innocent either; they've started adopting some of Apple's practices as well. Unless you're a masochist, going outside the Apple/Google ecosystem is not really a viable option. https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/03/app-revenue-tops-39-billion-in-first-half-of-2019-up-15-from-first-half-of-last-year/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/03/app-revenue-tops-39-billio... https://www.gsmarena.com/counterpoint_flagship_smartphone_shipments_dipped_by_13_in_q1_apple_had_4_of_the_5_best_sellers-news-43799.php https://www.gsmarena.com/counterpoint_flagship_smartphone_sh...
- gizmo 6y ago
  As an app developer you can't NOT be in the Apple app store. As a consumer you can simply say no to Apple products. As a business Apple is too big a percentage of your customer base and you're forced to play by their arbitrary and capricious rules.

Google and Microsoft control(ed) more of the markets that they operated in: in the 1990s to 2000s what percentage of PCs ran Windows? What percentage of search does Google have? Apple/iOS currently has less that 20%: * https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/blogs/devices/smartphones/smart-phones/2020/04/30/global-smartphone-shipments-fall-17-percent-in-q1-2020 https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/blogs/d... * https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... * https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor Android, split across multiple manufacturers, has >80%.

Avamander 6y ago
Apple/iOS has 100% on their platform. Noone stopped you back then from buying an Apple PC, installing Linux or BSD etc. either. Noone stopped you from installing an alternative browser on either Windows or Android, yet they got slapped for it.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  This is like saying McDonald's have a monopoly because you can only buy McDonalds in a McDonalds restaurant... go somewhere else if you don't want the McDonalds menu.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    Your analogy is just blatantly incorrect from the developer's perspective, very user-centric. You can't choose not to sell "patties" "McDonalds" if you want to actually sell your "patties". And as I said, people were just as free to install other browsers than IE on Windows and Chrome on Android, but it was still considered bad monopolistic behaviour and they got punished for it.
    - throw0101a 6y ago
      > And as I said, people were just as free to install other browsers than IE on Windows Check the ruling against Microsoft: they were slapped down for this because they had a monopoly in the field of PCs / computers, and they (tried to) leveraged that monopoly into a monopoly for browsers. Android is the dominant smartphone platform (per units shipped), so Google is closer being considered a monopoly. Apple does not have a monopoly in smartphones or computers, so I'm failing to see how any parallels here. The best argument you can hope to make is that a duopoly exists between Android and iOS, and the duopoly together should be treated as monopoly for practical purposes. But claiming monopolistic behaviours and associated restrictions on a company that has 20% of the market is silly.
      - Avamander 6y ago
        > But claiming monopolistic behaviours and associated restrictions on a company that has 20% of the market is silly. iPhones have a majority of the marketshare in the US. It's silly to ignore that. > Check the ruling against Microsoft: they were slapped down for this because they had a monopoly in the field of PCs / computers, and they (tried to) leveraged that monopoly into a monopoly for browsers. If we follow your logic, there were other platforms that did not run MS Windows. They only had a monopoly on Windows computers.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        throw0101a 6y ago
        > iPhones have a majority of the marketshare in the US. It's silly to ignore that. Looks like 50/50, at most: * https://www.statista.com/statistics/620805/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/620805/ Maybe Android even has a little more: * https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... If the government wants to regulate the duopolist together as a monopoly, then let us say so and argue the pros/cons of that strategy. But saying that iOS has a monopoly when they do not is what is silly. > If we follow your logic, there were other platforms that did not run MS Windows. They only had a monopoly on Windows computers. If Sun had a monopoly on scientific workstations, and they tried to leverage that to crush competition in another market, then that would make sense. But the only market in which there was a monopoly was consumer PCs, Microsoft had it, and they were found guilty of abusing it: > The plaintiffs alleged that Microsoft had abused monopoly power on Intel-based personal computers in its handling of operating system and web browser integration. The issue central to the case was whether Microsoft was allowed to bundle its flagship Internet Explorer (IE) web browser software with its Windows operating system. Bundling them is alleged to have been responsible for Microsoft's victory in the browser wars as every Windows user had a copy of IE. It was further alleged that this restricted the market for competing web browsers (such as Netscape Navigator or Opera), since it typically took a while to download or purchase such software at a store. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....

chrisseaton 6y ago

> That's bullshit Can you buy an alternative product and have nothing to do with Apple's store? Yes. They aren't a monopoly. Are they a big player? Yes. But they aren't a monopoly. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Vote with your dollars and impressions.

e_y_ 6y ago
I'd call it a duopoly, which is not as bad as a monopoly but it's definitely enough to set market prices and arguably should subject them to antitrust scrutiny for anti-competitive behavior. They have more than 50% of global app sales revenue; Apple's App Store revenue is about 80% higher than Google Play. They also have about 57% of the "premium" ($400+) smartphone market. That has a strong impact on the ability for developers to create and sell apps. Not to say that Google is innocent either; they've started adopting some of Apple's practices as well. Unless you're a masochist, going outside the Apple/Google ecosystem is not really a viable option. https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/03/app-revenue-tops-39-billion-in-first-half-of-2019-up-15-from-first-half-of-last-year/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/03/app-revenue-tops-39-billio... https://www.gsmarena.com/counterpoint_flagship_smartphone_shipments_dipped_by_13_in_q1_apple_had_4_of_the_5_best_sellers-news-43799.php https://www.gsmarena.com/counterpoint_flagship_smartphone_sh...
gizmo 6y ago
As an app developer you can't NOT be in the Apple app store. As a consumer you can simply say no to Apple products. As a business Apple is too big a percentage of your customer base and you're forced to play by their arbitrary and capricious rules.