4 ms·

Funny you mention this law, IIRC exactly its revoking has triggered the Crimean protests, which have opened a window of opportunity for Russia. And the new powe

by fuoqi 6y ago

Funny you mention this law, IIRC exactly its revoking has triggered the Crimean protests, which have opened a window of opportunity for Russia. And the new power in Kiev was actively hostile to Russia, so there was no hope for a better law. In a sense it was the last straw for Crimeans. And even before that, Ukraine is a country in which 30% consider Russian a native language (according to the official census, so I consider it a lower bound) and more than 80% prefer to use it in daily live (the numbers should be lower now for obvious reasons, but the point still stands). It's simply ridiculous to not have Russian as an official language in such conditions. For comparison in Canada only 20% know French and still it's a full-fledged official language.

riku_iki 6y ago
Law has not been revoked until 2018 though. > It's simply ridiculous to not have Russian as an official language in such conditions. They allowed Russian to be official regional language in regions where more than 10% population speaks Russian. Sounds reasonable to me. Window of opportunity was caused by messed up government in Ukraine, which couldn't produce any resistance against Russia's military invasion.
- fuoqi 6y ago
  Rada has voted in favor of revoking it in 2014: https://iportal.rada.gov.ua/ru/news/Novosty/Soobshchenyya/88116.html https://iportal.rada.gov.ua/ru/news/Novosty/Soobshchenyya/88... It's exactly the same day when active protests in Crimea and Donbas have started. Yes, technically the law was still active, but it was just a delay due to the powerful backlash and people understood well intention of those who came into power. >Sounds reasonable to me. Wow... I guess let's agree to disagree here. Because for me a situation in which 80% people speak a language in daily life, but it's not an official one, looks more suitable for an occupation, than for a normal state. Can you name any other world country with a similar situation? (IIRC only Baltic states come somewhat close) And let's be honest, "regional language status" was just breadcrumbs. Russian was systematically discriminated as a matter of state policy starting from TV and ending with schools, with situation only worsening over time. >Window of opportunity was caused by messed up government in Ukraine, which couldn't produce any resistance against Russia's military invasion. Don't forget about heavily demoralized military (and the protests have played a major part here), which didn't believe in the new government, and most of which accepted Russian terms and got integrated into its military. Also some say that the new government has intentionally allowed the situation around Crimea and Donbas to degrade, so a lot of pro-Russian electorate would be cut off from elections. But I guess gross incompetence is usually a better explanation.
  - riku_iki 6y ago
    > Yes, technically the law was still active, but it was just a delay due to the powerful backlash and people understood well intention of those who came into power. Pure speculation. > in which 80% people speak a language in daily life, Citation needed. > Don't forget about heavily demoralized military (and the protests have played a major part here), which didn't believe in the new government, and most of which accepted Russian terms and got integrated into its military. Pure speculation.
    - sobani 6y ago
      > > in which 80% people speak a language in daily life, > Citation needed. According to Wikipedia, in May 2013 82% of respondents spoke Russian at home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#Ethnicities_and_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#Ethnici...
      - riku_iki 6y ago
        Correct, and Russian was official in Crimea, but I was thinking previous commenter was talking about whole country, maybe I got confused.
  - drran 6y ago
    > Rada has voted in favor of revoking it in 2014 Revoking of what? Russian language is protected by Constitution of Ukraine, as language of minority. Did you read what you posted? > looks more suitable for an occupation, than for a normal state. You are right, Crimea was occupied by Russian Empire and USSR. Natives (Tatars, Goths, Greeks, Italians, Turks, Ukrainians) are exhaled or exterminated. > Don't forget about heavily demoralized military (and the protests have played a major part here) Russian propaganda, in Russian language, played major role. Russian Federation planned to attack Ukraine since 2008, preparing for occupation of Crimea and creation of "Newrussia". As former officer of intelligence, I knew about planned protests controlled by RF (AKA "Шатун") in 2012.

by fuoqi 6y ago

riku_iki 6y ago

Law has not been revoked until 2018 though. > It's simply ridiculous to not have Russian as an official language in such conditions. They allowed Russian to be official regional language in regions where more than 10% population speaks Russian. Sounds reasonable to me. Window of opportunity was caused by messed up government in Ukraine, which couldn't produce any resistance against Russia's military invasion.

fuoqi 6y ago
Rada has voted in favor of revoking it in 2014: https://iportal.rada.gov.ua/ru/news/Novosty/Soobshchenyya/88116.html https://iportal.rada.gov.ua/ru/news/Novosty/Soobshchenyya/88... It's exactly the same day when active protests in Crimea and Donbas have started. Yes, technically the law was still active, but it was just a delay due to the powerful backlash and people understood well intention of those who came into power. >Sounds reasonable to me. Wow... I guess let's agree to disagree here. Because for me a situation in which 80% people speak a language in daily life, but it's not an official one, looks more suitable for an occupation, than for a normal state. Can you name any other world country with a similar situation? (IIRC only Baltic states come somewhat close) And let's be honest, "regional language status" was just breadcrumbs. Russian was systematically discriminated as a matter of state policy starting from TV and ending with schools, with situation only worsening over time. >Window of opportunity was caused by messed up government in Ukraine, which couldn't produce any resistance against Russia's military invasion. Don't forget about heavily demoralized military (and the protests have played a major part here), which didn't believe in the new government, and most of which accepted Russian terms and got integrated into its military. Also some say that the new government has intentionally allowed the situation around Crimea and Donbas to degrade, so a lot of pro-Russian electorate would be cut off from elections. But I guess gross incompetence is usually a better explanation.
- riku_iki 6y ago
  > Yes, technically the law was still active, but it was just a delay due to the powerful backlash and people understood well intention of those who came into power. Pure speculation. > in which 80% people speak a language in daily life, Citation needed. > Don't forget about heavily demoralized military (and the protests have played a major part here), which didn't believe in the new government, and most of which accepted Russian terms and got integrated into its military. Pure speculation.
  - sobani 6y ago
    > > in which 80% people speak a language in daily life, > Citation needed. According to Wikipedia, in May 2013 82% of respondents spoke Russian at home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#Ethnicities_and_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#Ethnici...
    - riku_iki 6y ago
      Correct, and Russian was official in Crimea, but I was thinking previous commenter was talking about whole country, maybe I got confused.
- drran 6y ago
  > Rada has voted in favor of revoking it in 2014 Revoking of what? Russian language is protected by Constitution of Ukraine, as language of minority. Did you read what you posted? > looks more suitable for an occupation, than for a normal state. You are right, Crimea was occupied by Russian Empire and USSR. Natives (Tatars, Goths, Greeks, Italians, Turks, Ukrainians) are exhaled or exterminated. > Don't forget about heavily demoralized military (and the protests have played a major part here) Russian propaganda, in Russian language, played major role. Russian Federation planned to attack Ukraine since 2008, preparing for occupation of Crimea and creation of "Newrussia". As former officer of intelligence, I knew about planned protests controlled by RF (AKA "Шатун") in 2012.