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Probably naive question, but couldn't they markup the In-App-Subscription by whatever % of cut Apple is taking? The same is done by restaurants for things like

Probably naive question, but couldn't they markup the In-App-Subscription by whatever % of cut Apple is taking? The same is done by restaurants for things like Uber Eat/Postmate: they have their prices on their menu, and a marked-up price on these platforms. downvotes: mind explaining why my naive question is not a worthy contribution/question? or if you just disagree, I'm genuinely interested in understanding what I'm not grasping.

evan_ 6y ago
Why should they have to spend a month building a whole new iPhone-first onboarding flow and updating their entire app to accept a different subscription provider? Who's to say that if they spend that hundreds of thousands of dollars of developer time Apple won't just knock them down for some other imagined infraction?
- scarface74 6y ago
  Hundreds of thousands of dollars to create in app subscriptions? There are many indy developers that have done that as a one man operation.
  - evan_ 6y ago
    I said dollars, not hours. I stand by that estimate. Right now there's no mobile-first onboarding flow. That's a completely new thing they'll have to build. They'll also need to update all of their code that checks subscriptions, handles dunning, etc., to now work with multiple billing providers. So yeah, it's going to take a lot of time, which is a lot of dollars.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Hundreds of thousands of dollars to do in app purchases. As an example, do you really think Marco Arment - sole creator of Instapaper before he sold it, The Magazine, and now Overcast spent “hundreds of thousands of dollars” just to create in app purchases?
      - VRay 6y ago
        evan_ is thinking in terms of "What would it cost to get a bunch of depressed FAANG engineers to code this as part of their day job?", and you're thinking in terms of "How many packages of instant ramen will a motivated entrepreneur have to eat while he codes this in his parents' basement?" Both valid perspectives IMO.
        scarface74 6y ago
        Well, Marco made a few million from the sell of Tumblr to Yahoo and he is one of three hosts on either the most popular Apple related podcast or the second most popular podcast. I don’t think he’s a struggling entrepreneur.
      - evan_ 6y ago
        If you're gonna use him for your argument you can listen to Marco's actual thoughts about this on the episode of Accidental Tech Podcast that dropped today, I won't spoil it but he's not on board.
        scarface74 6y ago
        I didn’t say he was onboard with the decision. I am not onboard with the decision. I said it’s a gross exaggeration to think a competent iOS developer couldn’t get in app purchasing working in an evening.
        evan_ 6y ago
        Turning on the Wallet entitlement will take like 10 seconds, I don't know how long it'll take to build the rest of the subscription stuff but probably not a long time. You're ignoring that they are going to have to update all of their backend billing code to support two different billing providers, and design and build a mobile onboarding flow in the app. Then they have to support those things going forward. They obviously knew that Apple Pay subscriptions were an option when they were whiteboarding the product, and they decided to not do them. That says to me that they weighed the options, did some math, and decided that the numbers worked better if they didn't spend time on that, and kept 100% of the money.
  - jeiting 6y ago
    it sucks pretty bad though
  - corkmask 6y ago
    wasting a month to implement it and maintaining two different billing systems so I can pay the apple tax? really?????
    - scarface74 6y ago
      A month? What type of piss poor developers do you think BaseCamp have that it takes a month to implement a billing system? This is like “My First Program” level of complexity.
AlexMuir 6y ago
If I recall the terms specifically prohibit different pricing. (You deserved a reply not a downvote!)
- Hamuko 6y ago
  Not true and if it was, other apps would be in violation of it. Dropbox Plus is 11.99€ on the App Store as an in-app purchase and 9.99€ on Dropbox.com
  - jkmcf 6y ago
    The rule used to be it has to be the same price. Has that changed, has Dropbox received special treatment, or is the Euro market granting them the pricing exception?
terracatta 6y ago
> The same is done by restaurants for things like Uber Eat/Postmate: they have their prices on their menu, and a marked-up price on these platforms I do not believe Apple's tax for IAP applies for physical goods or services. Only digital products or goods. If those companies are charging more, it might be for another reason. > 3.1.5 Physical Goods and Services Outside of the App: If your app enables people to purchase goods or services that will be consumed outside of the app, you must use purchase methods other than in-app purchase to collect those payments, such as Apple Pay or traditional credit card entry. Apps may facilitate transmission of approved virtual currencies (e.g. Bitcoin, DogeCoin) provided that they do so in compliance with all state and federal laws for the territories in which the app functions. > but couldn't they markup the In-App-Subscription by whatever % of cut Apple is taking? They can do this but they are not allowed to inform their customers on the iOS app that the prices are lower elsewhere > Section 3.1.3(b) Multiplatform Services: Apps that operate across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired elsewhere, including consumable items in multi-platform games, provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app. You must not directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods must not discourage use of in-app purchase.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >I do not believe Apple's tax for IAP applies for physical goods or services. Only digital products or goods. If those companies are charging more, it might be for another reason. Food delivery apps have their own commissions.
  - terracatta 6y ago
    Source? I believe you, but I am interested in learning more and I'm not finding anything. Would love to read if you have a link handy.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      https://www.saddlebackbbq.com/how-google-doordash-grubhub-conspire-screw-local-restaurants https://www.saddlebackbbq.com/how-google-doordash-grubhub-co... You can find plenty of stuff on HN alone if you search for "grubhub" (and probably with any other food delivery app name).
Hamuko 6y ago
They could, but that'd require them to markup their service from $99 per year to $142 per year without being able to explain to consumers that $142 is not the regular price. So anyone that downloads Hey from the App Store is greeted with $142 and might be put off by it compared to $99.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

evan_ 6y ago

Why should they have to spend a month building a whole new iPhone-first onboarding flow and updating their entire app to accept a different subscription provider? Who's to say that if they spend that hundreds of thousands of dollars of developer time Apple won't just knock them down for some other imagined infraction?

scarface74 6y ago
Hundreds of thousands of dollars to create in app subscriptions? There are many indy developers that have done that as a one man operation.
- evan_ 6y ago
  I said dollars, not hours. I stand by that estimate. Right now there's no mobile-first onboarding flow. That's a completely new thing they'll have to build. They'll also need to update all of their code that checks subscriptions, handles dunning, etc., to now work with multiple billing providers. So yeah, it's going to take a lot of time, which is a lot of dollars.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Hundreds of thousands of dollars to do in app purchases. As an example, do you really think Marco Arment - sole creator of Instapaper before he sold it, The Magazine, and now Overcast spent “hundreds of thousands of dollars” just to create in app purchases?
    - VRay 6y ago
      evan_ is thinking in terms of "What would it cost to get a bunch of depressed FAANG engineers to code this as part of their day job?", and you're thinking in terms of "How many packages of instant ramen will a motivated entrepreneur have to eat while he codes this in his parents' basement?" Both valid perspectives IMO.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Well, Marco made a few million from the sell of Tumblr to Yahoo and he is one of three hosts on either the most popular Apple related podcast or the second most popular podcast. I don’t think he’s a struggling entrepreneur.
    - evan_ 6y ago
      If you're gonna use him for your argument you can listen to Marco's actual thoughts about this on the episode of Accidental Tech Podcast that dropped today, I won't spoil it but he's not on board.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        I didn’t say he was onboard with the decision. I am not onboard with the decision. I said it’s a gross exaggeration to think a competent iOS developer couldn’t get in app purchasing working in an evening.
        evan_ 6y ago
        Turning on the Wallet entitlement will take like 10 seconds, I don't know how long it'll take to build the rest of the subscription stuff but probably not a long time. You're ignoring that they are going to have to update all of their backend billing code to support two different billing providers, and design and build a mobile onboarding flow in the app. Then they have to support those things going forward. They obviously knew that Apple Pay subscriptions were an option when they were whiteboarding the product, and they decided to not do them. That says to me that they weighed the options, did some math, and decided that the numbers worked better if they didn't spend time on that, and kept 100% of the money.
- jeiting 6y ago
  it sucks pretty bad though
- corkmask 6y ago
  wasting a month to implement it and maintaining two different billing systems so I can pay the apple tax? really?????
  - scarface74 6y ago
    A month? What type of piss poor developers do you think BaseCamp have that it takes a month to implement a billing system? This is like “My First Program” level of complexity.

AlexMuir 6y ago

If I recall the terms specifically prohibit different pricing. (You deserved a reply not a downvote!)

Hamuko 6y ago
Not true and if it was, other apps would be in violation of it. Dropbox Plus is 11.99€ on the App Store as an in-app purchase and 9.99€ on Dropbox.com
- jkmcf 6y ago
  The rule used to be it has to be the same price. Has that changed, has Dropbox received special treatment, or is the Euro market granting them the pricing exception?

terracatta 6y ago

> The same is done by restaurants for things like Uber Eat/Postmate: they have their prices on their menu, and a marked-up price on these platforms I do not believe Apple's tax for IAP applies for physical goods or services. Only digital products or goods. If those companies are charging more, it might be for another reason. > 3.1.5 Physical Goods and Services Outside of the App: If your app enables people to purchase goods or services that will be consumed outside of the app, you must use purchase methods other than in-app purchase to collect those payments, such as Apple Pay or traditional credit card entry. Apps may facilitate transmission of approved virtual currencies (e.g. Bitcoin, DogeCoin) provided that they do so in compliance with all state and federal laws for the territories in which the app functions. > but couldn't they markup the In-App-Subscription by whatever % of cut Apple is taking? They can do this but they are not allowed to inform their customers on the iOS app that the prices are lower elsewhere > Section 3.1.3(b) Multiplatform Services: Apps that operate across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired elsewhere, including consumable items in multi-platform games, provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app. You must not directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods must not discourage use of in-app purchase.

Hamuko 6y ago
>I do not believe Apple's tax for IAP applies for physical goods or services. Only digital products or goods. If those companies are charging more, it might be for another reason. Food delivery apps have their own commissions.
- terracatta 6y ago
  Source? I believe you, but I am interested in learning more and I'm not finding anything. Would love to read if you have a link handy.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    https://www.saddlebackbbq.com/how-google-doordash-grubhub-conspire-screw-local-restaurants https://www.saddlebackbbq.com/how-google-doordash-grubhub-co... You can find plenty of stuff on HN alone if you search for "grubhub" (and probably with any other food delivery app name).

Hamuko 6y ago

They could, but that'd require them to markup their service from $99 per year to $142 per year without being able to explain to consumers that $142 is not the regular price. So anyone that downloads Hey from the App Store is greeted with $142 and might be put off by it compared to $99.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]