The abolition movement does answer this which is that the reform movement has already been tested and failed. For illustration, can we say the easiest and most

The abolition movement does answer this which is that the reform movement has already been tested and failed. For illustration, can we say the easiest and most straight forward solutions eliminate 50% of incarceration? We've had incarceration rates in the US that were lower than that. When reformers say reform, they have to fight tooth and nail for 1% reduction. Even in New York State some simple bail reform got rolled back almost immediately after heavy PR by the police departments here. How do you go from 1% to saying, no, no, we actually meant 50x more reform than that? It just doesn't work. So, if abolition says 100% and it laters turns out that the theoretical healthy limit for a society is only 80%, well, nobody on the abolition side is going to be all that worked up about it.