10 ms·

Boycott WWDC everyone. Trillion Dollar companies don't play by the fair rules. Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google Play's 3

by rydre 6y ago

Boycott WWDC everyone. Trillion Dollar companies don't play by the fair rules. Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google Play's 30% cut. Apple has accused Match, Epic, and Spotify of wanting a 'free ride' while taking one themselves.

g_p 6y ago
Apple's claims of a "free ride" frankly seem ludicrous. There seem to me to be 3 issues at hand here. 1. The magnitude of the 30% charge, and the level of justification this has. 2. The ability for Apple to itself be a provider/competitor to those on the marketplace, such that they are not paying this 30% fee (and can immediately be 30% cheaper). 3. Whether Apple should be allowed to run a marketplace that operates on a whim, unwritten and ever-changing rules, informal policies, and no significant judicial remedies - if Government tried to retrospectively change the rules on you, you can sue them, and win. Apple can decide to eject you from its platform at its whim, and you are forced to accept this to use the platform.
evan_ 6y ago
or go to WWDC and just make this the topic of every Q&A
- LeoPanthera 6y ago
  "Apple" is not a single monolithic entity. The engineers who will be working their asses off to create and present WWDC have absolutely nothing to do with the business decisions of the App Store. Do not bully them, and do not waste the time of other participants who will have genuine engineering questions.
  - wildfire 6y ago
    Those engineers enabled this outcome. It is perfectly reasonable to ask why they facilitated immoral actions. There is a code of ethics all computing professionals should use to consider their actions. https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics#:~:text=The%20Code%20includes%20principles%20formulated,understanding%20and%20applying%20the%20principle https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics#:~:text=The%20Code%20incl....
    - mikestew 6y ago
      It is perfectly reasonable to ask why they facilitated immoral actions. Are you seriously proposing to give the presenter for the Core Audio session grief over this? IMO, that's just being a jackass "because purity". Or something; I'm at a loss to truly categorize such behavior.
      - evan_ 6y ago
        I think it's very relevant to ask the folks actually building the stuff what they think. If Apple won't answer questions about the platform through the proper channels, might as well go through the wrong channels. We're not going to get less of an answer.
      - PascLeRasc 6y ago
        Off topic, but do you know if there's actually going to be a CoreAudio session? I've been doing a ton of reading on it over the past year and I'd love to tune in.
        mikestew 6y ago
        Without looking at the schedule, I cannot say. I simply typed the first “Core” framework that came to mind at the moment.
    - Razengan 6y ago
      > It is perfectly reasonable to ask why they facilitated immoral actions. Should you be held accountable for everything any company you ever worked at has done or will do?
  - evan_ 6y ago
    The published guidelines are incomplete at best. The real rules seem to be arbitrary and aren't applied consistently. All of this talk about how "business services" get treated differently, enforcement changing in March, none of this is written down or available anywhere. It's a guessing game. Building an app that follows the published rules and then finding out that the rules that matter are actually wildly different, digging through twitter threads and blog posts to try to figure out what's allowed- frankly those are the wastes of developer time that bother me more.
schoolornot 6y ago
Or Google should just remove the app. No reason, no comment, nothing. Just remove the app and say too bad.
- illumanaughty 6y ago
  Ah yes, the Apple approach. I like it.
  - jackson1442 6y ago
    Let's be real, it's the Google approach too. Though I don't generally hear about this from developers, people who make their livelihoods from publishing videos on YouTube are frequently hit with automated takedowns of their content/channel with little-to-no recourse. This is a problem that crosses brands-- we need to push for better treatment of creators and developers alike to make this stop.
- tandr 6y ago
  and Apple to remove Google from it's store in escalation?
buboard 6y ago
maybe boycott safari instead. or just don't optimize for it
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Razengan 6y ago
I must politely decline your invitation to participate in the pitchforkings. Apple is still better than Google or Microsoft for me. As a user I still think Apple is the least evil. As a developer I still prefer their platforms. Your recent comment history is full of negging on Apple and I think this is one of those neg-waves that magically appear just before every WWDC, every year, like clockwork. Only 3.5 days to go, and I couldn't be more excited!

by rydre 6y ago

g_p 6y ago

Apple's claims of a "free ride" frankly seem ludicrous. There seem to me to be 3 issues at hand here. 1. The magnitude of the 30% charge, and the level of justification this has. 2. The ability for Apple to itself be a provider/competitor to those on the marketplace, such that they are not paying this 30% fee (and can immediately be 30% cheaper). 3. Whether Apple should be allowed to run a marketplace that operates on a whim, unwritten and ever-changing rules, informal policies, and no significant judicial remedies - if Government tried to retrospectively change the rules on you, you can sue them, and win. Apple can decide to eject you from its platform at its whim, and you are forced to accept this to use the platform.

evan_ 6y ago

or go to WWDC and just make this the topic of every Q&A

LeoPanthera 6y ago
"Apple" is not a single monolithic entity. The engineers who will be working their asses off to create and present WWDC have absolutely nothing to do with the business decisions of the App Store. Do not bully them, and do not waste the time of other participants who will have genuine engineering questions.
- wildfire 6y ago
  Those engineers enabled this outcome. It is perfectly reasonable to ask why they facilitated immoral actions. There is a code of ethics all computing professionals should use to consider their actions. https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics#:~:text=The%20Code%20includes%20principles%20formulated,understanding%20and%20applying%20the%20principle https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics#:~:text=The%20Code%20incl....
  - mikestew 6y ago
    It is perfectly reasonable to ask why they facilitated immoral actions. Are you seriously proposing to give the presenter for the Core Audio session grief over this? IMO, that's just being a jackass "because purity". Or something; I'm at a loss to truly categorize such behavior.
    - evan_ 6y ago
      I think it's very relevant to ask the folks actually building the stuff what they think. If Apple won't answer questions about the platform through the proper channels, might as well go through the wrong channels. We're not going to get less of an answer.
    - PascLeRasc 6y ago
      Off topic, but do you know if there's actually going to be a CoreAudio session? I've been doing a ton of reading on it over the past year and I'd love to tune in.
      - mikestew 6y ago
        Without looking at the schedule, I cannot say. I simply typed the first “Core” framework that came to mind at the moment.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    > It is perfectly reasonable to ask why they facilitated immoral actions. Should you be held accountable for everything any company you ever worked at has done or will do?
- evan_ 6y ago
  The published guidelines are incomplete at best. The real rules seem to be arbitrary and aren't applied consistently. All of this talk about how "business services" get treated differently, enforcement changing in March, none of this is written down or available anywhere. It's a guessing game. Building an app that follows the published rules and then finding out that the rules that matter are actually wildly different, digging through twitter threads and blog posts to try to figure out what's allowed- frankly those are the wastes of developer time that bother me more.

schoolornot 6y ago

Or Google should just remove the app. No reason, no comment, nothing. Just remove the app and say too bad.

illumanaughty 6y ago
Ah yes, the Apple approach. I like it.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  Let's be real, it's the Google approach too. Though I don't generally hear about this from developers, people who make their livelihoods from publishing videos on YouTube are frequently hit with automated takedowns of their content/channel with little-to-no recourse. This is a problem that crosses brands-- we need to push for better treatment of creators and developers alike to make this stop.
tandr 6y ago
and Apple to remove Google from it's store in escalation?

buboard 6y ago

maybe boycott safari instead. or just don't optimize for it

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Razengan 6y ago

I must politely decline your invitation to participate in the pitchforkings. Apple is still better than Google or Microsoft for me. As a user I still think Apple is the least evil. As a developer I still prefer their platforms. Your recent comment history is full of negging on Apple and I think this is one of those neg-waves that magically appear just before every WWDC, every year, like clockwork. Only 3.5 days to go, and I couldn't be more excited!