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> Like I said it can happen anywhere, but the likelihood and ease of it happening in less free countries seems significantly different. Why? Bureaucracy, Intel

> Like I said it can happen anywhere, but the likelihood and ease of it happening in less free countries seems significantly different. Why? Bureaucracy, Intelligence Services and state-level paranoia transcends political ideologies and systems. > The amount of news / data about it will of course be higher in more free nations. On the other hand, we'd hear a lot more about anything from Moscow in our media, so I doubt there's a lot to be talked about as of now. It's only one big leak away, of course, but so far, I don't see a lot of support for your theory.

duxup 6y ago
Because in free countries there's a actually the potential for individuals and groups to refuse to cooperate and make the request known. If China comes to you and tells you to hand over the keys, you don't go to court or the news media ... in the west you can actually refuse and we see that happen and play out in the courts and etc.
- luckylion 6y ago
  Yeah, you have the theoretical potential to not comply with a national security letter and just go public. Good luck with that.
  - duxup 6y ago
    In free countries there are court cases about such things. Not in less free countries. It seems like you're holding all nations to be equal if there isn't perfection. I think that's a poor way to measure anything involving people. The Snowden of China doesn't get his day in court, maybe never talked if his family back home was at risk.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      > In free countries there are court cases about such things. Not in less free countries. Russia literally had court proceedings about Telegram, which this post is about. Is Russia not a "less free country"? Or are those not "real court cases" while "ours" are totally real (but you can't talk about them and must play charades, and the opposing side has super powers written into the law)? If you need help carrying those goal posts, let me know. > The Snowden of China doesn't get his day in court, maybe never talked if his family back home was at risk. Neither does the Snowden of the US of A, you know, that one guy... right, Snowden, who has to hide in Russia of all places to not get shipped off to Gitmo. And even if he took that route, I'm sure the apologists would say "well, this is one of those small imperfections but he's fortunate that he's not in Russia".
      - duxup 6y ago
        Snowden can in fact get his day in court. His choice to not do so is understandable, but it's an option. I'm a little lost on what you're saying at this point. I can't imagine you or I want to get into the judicial differences between the US and Russia.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        Snowden has the choice of a court where he will not be able to defend himself. This is exactly how it works in China, Russia, or the former USSR.
        082349872349872 6y ago
        As I understand it, Snowden is perfectly willing to go on trial in the US, as long as said trial is conducted in public.

duxup 6y ago

Because in free countries there's a actually the potential for individuals and groups to refuse to cooperate and make the request known. If China comes to you and tells you to hand over the keys, you don't go to court or the news media ... in the west you can actually refuse and we see that happen and play out in the courts and etc.

luckylion 6y ago
Yeah, you have the theoretical potential to not comply with a national security letter and just go public. Good luck with that.
- duxup 6y ago
  In free countries there are court cases about such things. Not in less free countries. It seems like you're holding all nations to be equal if there isn't perfection. I think that's a poor way to measure anything involving people. The Snowden of China doesn't get his day in court, maybe never talked if his family back home was at risk.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    > In free countries there are court cases about such things. Not in less free countries. Russia literally had court proceedings about Telegram, which this post is about. Is Russia not a "less free country"? Or are those not "real court cases" while "ours" are totally real (but you can't talk about them and must play charades, and the opposing side has super powers written into the law)? If you need help carrying those goal posts, let me know. > The Snowden of China doesn't get his day in court, maybe never talked if his family back home was at risk. Neither does the Snowden of the US of A, you know, that one guy... right, Snowden, who has to hide in Russia of all places to not get shipped off to Gitmo. And even if he took that route, I'm sure the apologists would say "well, this is one of those small imperfections but he's fortunate that he's not in Russia".
    - duxup 6y ago
      Snowden can in fact get his day in court. His choice to not do so is understandable, but it's an option. I'm a little lost on what you're saying at this point. I can't imagine you or I want to get into the judicial differences between the US and Russia.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        Snowden has the choice of a court where he will not be able to defend himself. This is exactly how it works in China, Russia, or the former USSR.
        082349872349872 6y ago
        As I understand it, Snowden is perfectly willing to go on trial in the US, as long as said trial is conducted in public.