3 ms·

> "hr" is Croatian, Hungarian would be "hu" (and no doubt it sounds cool too). And the translation is abysmal: "jezgra" = "core" (of nuclear reactor) or "nucle

by zvrba 6y ago

> "hr" is Croatian, Hungarian would be "hu" (and no doubt it sounds cool too). And the translation is abysmal: "jezgra" = "core" (of nuclear reactor) or "nucleus" (of an atom); the closest translation for "izbačena" is "ejected". I believe that "core" comes originally from memory technology of the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory) so it should have been possible to find a more meaningful translation. EDIT: As a native Croatian speaker, I have NEVER used any program in Croatian locale. It is simply unintelligible. Funnily, I find Norwegian (where I live now) translations more approachable.

pantalaimon 6y ago
Localized error messages (that are still full of jargon) are terrible. It makes looking them up online much harder and often the translation does not more than obfuscation.
necovek 6y ago
The goal of "izbačena" here is clearly to indicate that the memory has been stored elsewhere. FWIW, "dumping trash" would be readily translated to "избацити смеће" (izbaciti smeće) in Serbian, so I am surprised it's such a stretch in Croatian. Perhaps the Croatian translation has been based off Serbian one. You are probably more accustomed to Norwegian translations because you never learned Norwegian IT-speak before the translations appeared, whereas I imagine you grew up on English interfaces while speaking Croatian (we term that Srblish, maybe you've got Croglish :)).
- zvrba 6y ago
  Croatian "izbaciti" is closest to this meaning: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eject https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eject or the phrase "throw out". F.ex., "Izbacivac" [sorry, haven't bothered with setting up HR keys] is the guy throwing out too drunk people from a club. > "избацити смеће" (izbaciti smeće) in Serbian, so I am surprised it's such a stretch in Croatian But that's exactly it! You "izbacis smece" and you don't care what happens to it after. Likewise with "izbacivac", he throws out a person and doesn't care what the person does afterwards. You don't "izbacis" something FOR someone to use it after. That's why the translation is bothering me. Whereas the kernel writes the core FOR THE USER to inspect it, back it up, delete it, whatever. The closest word I can come up with for English "dump" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dump https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dump is "ostaviti" ("leave around") ili "(is)pustiti" (in the meaning of "drop", not "flushing the toilet" :D). A better literal translation would thus be "Jezgra pustena." (Like a space probe is "pustena" into space and there it goes.) I guess the authors originally used "dump" because it's kinda random (system-wide config) where it ends up. The most meaningful translation to Croatian would be, IMHO, "Memorija sacuvana." [or "Memorija spremljena."] ("Memory preserved".) > I imagine you grew up on English interfaces while speaking Croatian Indeed. Some professors at the university did use Croatian terms, but everything about it was awfully alien to me. "Thread" would be "dretva". Which is ironic, as the professor explained that it's borrowed and mangled from German, whereas we have a perfectly valid, even nice, Croatian word "nit" that is literally "thread".
  - necovek 6y ago
    Those are all great points, but in English, "dumping" is also used when you want to get rid of something/someone (dump a boyfriend, dump into trash...). If anything, the translation is too literal, and you are advocating for a better translation for the actual action. It's a common complaint, but it's a hard balance to strike: literal translation is (usually) easier to translate back (not the case here), but a translation that is more descriptive is easier to understand. I think I am in the same boat as you, in that I usually prefer descriptive translations when a literal one uses a metaphore or concept that's alien to the local culture. Still, in this particular case, I'd use a less commonly used term (I imagine spremiti/sačuvati is also used for "save") like "zapisana" or "zabeležena", just so there's a better chance to keep 1-1 mapping between English and Croato-serbo-bosnian-montenegrin language. What English has mostly done was keep using old concepts (like "core" to represent "memory"), or repurposed seldom used words which I always found intriguing. Such approach would require some re-learning for us who grew up on English IT terminology, but every profession has a specialised terminology like that too (I like to bring up the example of maths, where in Serbian it's integral and izvod for integral and differential: always try coming up with a good native word, and if it _is_ good, it will stick :)). Note that people translating free software are usually volunteers working without much local support, and without an established vocabulary for all these specialised terms, so they will frequently come up with awkward translations.
    - necovek 6y ago
      I think I posted while you edited your post so you added a couple of good examples for a better literal translation. But this is exactly the point, it's hard work, it's not always done by people who understand the actual concepts or history, and they are doing it in their spare time. Imagine spending this much time and saying "I translated one message". Thus, I'd encourage you to contribute your suggestions upstream :)
    - zvrba 6y ago
      > Croato-serbo-bosnian-montenegrin language "In confidence": I miss the days when there was only serbo-croatian and croato-serbian :D (I grew up in Yugoslavia and still remember cyrillic.) Politicizing of the languages is just f*up. It says enough that I understand "urban" (i.e. newspapers/TV) serbian better than heavy croatian dialects from Dalmatia, Istra or Zagorje :p > integral and izvod Wow, "izvod" is really nice, I like it :D We used just "derivacija". If I had to guess what some eager translator would translate "integral" to, it'd be something like "ocjeljivanje" :D

by zvrba 6y ago

pantalaimon 6y ago

Localized error messages (that are still full of jargon) are terrible. It makes looking them up online much harder and often the translation does not more than obfuscation.

necovek 6y ago

The goal of "izbačena" here is clearly to indicate that the memory has been stored elsewhere. FWIW, "dumping trash" would be readily translated to "избацити смеће" (izbaciti smeće) in Serbian, so I am surprised it's such a stretch in Croatian. Perhaps the Croatian translation has been based off Serbian one. You are probably more accustomed to Norwegian translations because you never learned Norwegian IT-speak before the translations appeared, whereas I imagine you grew up on English interfaces while speaking Croatian (we term that Srblish, maybe you've got Croglish :)).

zvrba 6y ago
Croatian "izbaciti" is closest to this meaning: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eject https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eject or the phrase "throw out". F.ex., "Izbacivac" [sorry, haven't bothered with setting up HR keys] is the guy throwing out too drunk people from a club. > "избацити смеће" (izbaciti smeće) in Serbian, so I am surprised it's such a stretch in Croatian But that's exactly it! You "izbacis smece" and you don't care what happens to it after. Likewise with "izbacivac", he throws out a person and doesn't care what the person does afterwards. You don't "izbacis" something FOR someone to use it after. That's why the translation is bothering me. Whereas the kernel writes the core FOR THE USER to inspect it, back it up, delete it, whatever. The closest word I can come up with for English "dump" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dump https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dump is "ostaviti" ("leave around") ili "(is)pustiti" (in the meaning of "drop", not "flushing the toilet" :D). A better literal translation would thus be "Jezgra pustena." (Like a space probe is "pustena" into space and there it goes.) I guess the authors originally used "dump" because it's kinda random (system-wide config) where it ends up. The most meaningful translation to Croatian would be, IMHO, "Memorija sacuvana." [or "Memorija spremljena."] ("Memory preserved".) > I imagine you grew up on English interfaces while speaking Croatian Indeed. Some professors at the university did use Croatian terms, but everything about it was awfully alien to me. "Thread" would be "dretva". Which is ironic, as the professor explained that it's borrowed and mangled from German, whereas we have a perfectly valid, even nice, Croatian word "nit" that is literally "thread".
- necovek 6y ago
  Those are all great points, but in English, "dumping" is also used when you want to get rid of something/someone (dump a boyfriend, dump into trash...). If anything, the translation is too literal, and you are advocating for a better translation for the actual action. It's a common complaint, but it's a hard balance to strike: literal translation is (usually) easier to translate back (not the case here), but a translation that is more descriptive is easier to understand. I think I am in the same boat as you, in that I usually prefer descriptive translations when a literal one uses a metaphore or concept that's alien to the local culture. Still, in this particular case, I'd use a less commonly used term (I imagine spremiti/sačuvati is also used for "save") like "zapisana" or "zabeležena", just so there's a better chance to keep 1-1 mapping between English and Croato-serbo-bosnian-montenegrin language. What English has mostly done was keep using old concepts (like "core" to represent "memory"), or repurposed seldom used words which I always found intriguing. Such approach would require some re-learning for us who grew up on English IT terminology, but every profession has a specialised terminology like that too (I like to bring up the example of maths, where in Serbian it's integral and izvod for integral and differential: always try coming up with a good native word, and if it _is_ good, it will stick :)). Note that people translating free software are usually volunteers working without much local support, and without an established vocabulary for all these specialised terms, so they will frequently come up with awkward translations.
  - necovek 6y ago
    I think I posted while you edited your post so you added a couple of good examples for a better literal translation. But this is exactly the point, it's hard work, it's not always done by people who understand the actual concepts or history, and they are doing it in their spare time. Imagine spending this much time and saying "I translated one message". Thus, I'd encourage you to contribute your suggestions upstream :)
  - zvrba 6y ago
    > Croato-serbo-bosnian-montenegrin language "In confidence": I miss the days when there was only serbo-croatian and croato-serbian :D (I grew up in Yugoslavia and still remember cyrillic.) Politicizing of the languages is just f*up. It says enough that I understand "urban" (i.e. newspapers/TV) serbian better than heavy croatian dialects from Dalmatia, Istra or Zagorje :p > integral and izvod Wow, "izvod" is really nice, I like it :D We used just "derivacija". If I had to guess what some eager translator would translate "integral" to, it'd be something like "ocjeljivanje" :D