7 ms·

Small shops with card fees is the last remaining hold out for me. Payment systems should be nationalised and run by a country's central bank. It's a very borin

Small shops with card fees is the last remaining hold out for me. Payment systems should be nationalised and run by a country's central bank. It's a very boring infrastructure equivalent to roads. There shouldn't be a private company taxing every single transaction someone makes. Do that and the small stores can drop the fees.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
I’m not sure I see your logic here. Do you think the payment networks will be cheaper to operate if they’re run by the government? Or would you prefer an actual tax to the fees you’re comparing to taxes? Do you expect banks would drop their transaction fees? Do you think payment gateways would drop their fees? Do you think payment terminals would become free, and their networks free to use?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- artifact_44 6y ago
  Yeah, that is the purpose of a functional government.
- mcv 6y ago
  Banks have already dropped their transaction fees. Simple bank transactions in the EU are free. iDeal payment is either free or costs about 25 cents.
  - AmericanChopper 6y ago
    In the EU it’s illegal for a merchant to charge a different price based on payment method (iirc), but merchants are most certainly still charged transaction fees for card payments. SEPA transfers still incur fees too. There is a huge number of service providers involved in every single card payment, and that service infrastructure only exists because people pay to use it. It absolutely wouldn’t be strange for the 2-3% fee a merchant is charged for processing a transaction to be divided up between more than 10 service providers.
    - mcv 6y ago
      > "In the EU it’s illegal for a merchant to charge a different price based on payment method" I really don't think that's true; there are plenty of merchants who do still charge different prices based on payment method. But there are also many who voluntarily don't, because the actual cost is negligible and better than the alternatives. Regular bank transfers of various kinds between consumers, including iDeal internet payments, as far as I can tell, have no fees at all. Cash withdrawals across different currencies may incur fees, but I've never seen fees in regular Euro cash withdrawals. Nobody here is charging 2-3% except when credit cards are involved.
      - AmericanChopper 6y ago
        Turns out it is true. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri... > Traders in the EU are not allowed to charge you extra for using your credit or debit card. Regarding this: > Nobody here is charging 2-3% except when credit cards are involved. The service provider that provides the payment terminals merchants use will be charging the merchants between 1-2%, often with a per transaction fee on top of that. I’m not 100% sure how service providers in the EU bundle things, but intercharge fees are usually charged on top of that again. Even though the EU caps interchange fees, merchants will very easily be incurring above 2% in fees even for non-credit card transactions. The EU’s cap on interchange fees for card not present transactions is barely below standard market rates, so EU merchants will be paying about the same as everybody else for those.
- netsharc 6y ago
  Not OP, but I'd dislike it if everything is run by private corporations. Already our communication methods are like that (FB Messenger, WhatsApp, Zoom, Google Hangduomeetout, Twitter), and these companies can just say "You violated our TOS, get out!", or they censor things depending on who's friends with them (for example you can't send piratebay links on FB Messenger because "this website is a security risk to your computer", but the real reason is probably Hollywood lobbying). Imagine if you write bad stuff about China, and the banks in your country who have a commercial interest to expand to China gets a memo "AmericanChopper is in our embargo list, if a bank does business with him they will be embargoed from China". (I say China, but the US does this, and no bank worldwide would dare touch anyone in the US's embargo list, for example Putin's friends. At least when the US does it, they have good reasoning, imagine if China does it and makes up some bullshit against you, and the banks would just follow because... money). Sweden has a pilot project for a digtal currency: https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/20/906146/sweden-riksbank-ekrona-blockchain/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/20/906146/sweden-ri... , I wonder how it's going.
chrisseaton 6y ago
They aren't 'taxing' it - they're charging for a service rendered, which is a valuable service to me so I'm fine with it.

AmericanChopper 6y ago

I’m not sure I see your logic here. Do you think the payment networks will be cheaper to operate if they’re run by the government? Or would you prefer an actual tax to the fees you’re comparing to taxes? Do you expect banks would drop their transaction fees? Do you think payment gateways would drop their fees? Do you think payment terminals would become free, and their networks free to use?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
artifact_44 6y ago
Yeah, that is the purpose of a functional government.
mcv 6y ago
Banks have already dropped their transaction fees. Simple bank transactions in the EU are free. iDeal payment is either free or costs about 25 cents.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  In the EU it’s illegal for a merchant to charge a different price based on payment method (iirc), but merchants are most certainly still charged transaction fees for card payments. SEPA transfers still incur fees too. There is a huge number of service providers involved in every single card payment, and that service infrastructure only exists because people pay to use it. It absolutely wouldn’t be strange for the 2-3% fee a merchant is charged for processing a transaction to be divided up between more than 10 service providers.
  - mcv 6y ago
    > "In the EU it’s illegal for a merchant to charge a different price based on payment method" I really don't think that's true; there are plenty of merchants who do still charge different prices based on payment method. But there are also many who voluntarily don't, because the actual cost is negligible and better than the alternatives. Regular bank transfers of various kinds between consumers, including iDeal internet payments, as far as I can tell, have no fees at all. Cash withdrawals across different currencies may incur fees, but I've never seen fees in regular Euro cash withdrawals. Nobody here is charging 2-3% except when credit cards are involved.
    - AmericanChopper 6y ago
      Turns out it is true. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri... > Traders in the EU are not allowed to charge you extra for using your credit or debit card. Regarding this: > Nobody here is charging 2-3% except when credit cards are involved. The service provider that provides the payment terminals merchants use will be charging the merchants between 1-2%, often with a per transaction fee on top of that. I’m not 100% sure how service providers in the EU bundle things, but intercharge fees are usually charged on top of that again. Even though the EU caps interchange fees, merchants will very easily be incurring above 2% in fees even for non-credit card transactions. The EU’s cap on interchange fees for card not present transactions is barely below standard market rates, so EU merchants will be paying about the same as everybody else for those.
netsharc 6y ago
Not OP, but I'd dislike it if everything is run by private corporations. Already our communication methods are like that (FB Messenger, WhatsApp, Zoom, Google Hangduomeetout, Twitter), and these companies can just say "You violated our TOS, get out!", or they censor things depending on who's friends with them (for example you can't send piratebay links on FB Messenger because "this website is a security risk to your computer", but the real reason is probably Hollywood lobbying). Imagine if you write bad stuff about China, and the banks in your country who have a commercial interest to expand to China gets a memo "AmericanChopper is in our embargo list, if a bank does business with him they will be embargoed from China". (I say China, but the US does this, and no bank worldwide would dare touch anyone in the US's embargo list, for example Putin's friends. At least when the US does it, they have good reasoning, imagine if China does it and makes up some bullshit against you, and the banks would just follow because... money). Sweden has a pilot project for a digtal currency: https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/20/906146/sweden-riksbank-ekrona-blockchain/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/20/906146/sweden-ri... , I wonder how it's going.

chrisseaton 6y ago

They aren't 'taxing' it - they're charging for a service rendered, which is a valuable service to me so I'm fine with it.