7 ms·

At one point abolishing paper cash is even remotely plausible? maybe in 100 years? So far cash rules majority of the world and I don't see it going away any tim

At one point abolishing paper cash is even remotely plausible? maybe in 100 years? So far cash rules majority of the world and I don't see it going away any time soon.

hiq 6y ago
Aren't Sweden and China frequently used as counterexamples, to a certain extent?
- Shoue 6y ago
  I'd say Scandinavia as a whole. In Norway I had to use my debit card to access public toilets in train stations, with a small fee. I'd be surprised if Denmark wasn't similar to Norway and Sweden.
ddkto 6y ago
Central banks are keeping a close eye on it, so I think we’ve crossed the ‘remotely plausible’ line: “Earlier this year, Deputy Governor Tim Lane spoke about the circumstances when it might make sense for the Bank of Canada to issue our own digital currency. This includes a situation in which most Canadians stopped using bank notes. We don’t believe that a digital currency is required at this time. But we are moving forward with contingency planning so that if we ever judged that we should issue a digital currency, we would be ready.” (https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/06/opening-statement-160620/ https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/06/opening-statement-160620...)
bauerd 6y ago
Supermarkets already exist that don't accept cash (in NL at least)
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  Isn't that the case for the Amazon stores?
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    In some states, not accepting cash at a public retail establishment is illegal. It's seen as a method of discrimination. The advent of Amazon stores has started a small wave of legislation in this direction.
- eythian 6y ago
  AH also doesn't accept credit card. Not sure what non-locals are supposed to do if they don't have a maestro card. I guess there aren't many non-locals at the moment, but it must be weird for cash-accustomed Germans visiting.
  - bauerd 6y ago
    I'm German and was quite surprised indeed :-)
  - oxfeed65261 6y ago
    AH?
    - bauerd 6y ago
      https://www.ah.nl/ https://www.ah.nl/
vetinari 6y ago
That would depend on a country. Sweden? Probably easy. South-Eastern Asia? 100 years would be too optimistic.
- readarticle 6y ago
  I’ve never been nor kept up with SEA, but this is still surprising to hear! I would have assumed WeChat type mobile payments situations were well in place, is cash really that dominant or are there other factors?
  - vetinari 6y ago
    One reason is, that cashless transfers costs money; e.g. the card processing companies in their contracts disallow the vendors to increase the prices for customers using their payment system, compared to other means of payments. So effectively all the cash paying customers subsidy the electronic payments systems, while not having the convenience of not using cash. This part of the contract is not followed in SEA countries. If you want to pay with something that carries a fee, you are going to pay the fee on top of the price. Logically, most people will choose to pay cash then. The second reason is taxes. Most small vendors do not bother with taxing their incomes; they are too poor for that anyway, every coin helps. With electronic ledgers documenting all the transactions, that would be much more difficult. The local IRSes do not bother with chasing these people, they know that the price would be higher than revenue; so they check only businesses with significant enough turnover.
    - mcv 6y ago
      Cash payments also cost money. Not small interpersonal payments, but for larger shops, storing cash safely, transferring it safely to a bank to have counted and deposit it, costs significant money. Many shops prefer electronic payment for that reason, and voluntarily eat the costs associated with it, because it's still cheaper than cash. Of course that only works if electronic payment is cheap. This is not the case with US credit card companies.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
chrisseaton 6y ago
Cash is already going away in some countries. Almost nobody pays for anything with cash in the UK anymore.
- duncanawoods 6y ago
  Small shops with card fees is the last remaining hold out for me. Payment systems should be nationalised and run by a country's central bank. It's a very boring infrastructure equivalent to roads. There shouldn't be a private company taxing every single transaction someone makes. Do that and the small stores can drop the fees.
  - AmericanChopper 6y ago
    I’m not sure I see your logic here. Do you think the payment networks will be cheaper to operate if they’re run by the government? Or would you prefer an actual tax to the fees you’re comparing to taxes? Do you expect banks would drop their transaction fees? Do you think payment gateways would drop their fees? Do you think payment terminals would become free, and their networks free to use?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - artifact_44 6y ago
      Yeah, that is the purpose of a functional government.
    - mcv 6y ago
      Banks have already dropped their transaction fees. Simple bank transactions in the EU are free. iDeal payment is either free or costs about 25 cents.
      - AmericanChopper 6y ago
        In the EU it’s illegal for a merchant to charge a different price based on payment method (iirc), but merchants are most certainly still charged transaction fees for card payments. SEPA transfers still incur fees too. There is a huge number of service providers involved in every single card payment, and that service infrastructure only exists because people pay to use it. It absolutely wouldn’t be strange for the 2-3% fee a merchant is charged for processing a transaction to be divided up between more than 10 service providers.
scandox 6y ago
It is I'm afraid. Covid has greatly accelerated this process.
usr1106 6y ago
I have not used any cash since beginning of April. Normally I use more cash than the average person in my situation here. But since corona using cash is often seen as being anti-social, disrespecting other's health, so I did not want to be provocative. Last week libraries fully opened and I took a couple of photocopies for 30 cents/page. They have stopped accepting cash, so I paid by credit card. This is Finland, YMMV.

At one point abolishing paper cash is even remotely plausible? maybe in 100 years? So far cash rules majority of the world and I don't see it going away any time soon.

hiq 6y ago

Aren't Sweden and China frequently used as counterexamples, to a certain extent?

Shoue 6y ago
I'd say Scandinavia as a whole. In Norway I had to use my debit card to access public toilets in train stations, with a small fee. I'd be surprised if Denmark wasn't similar to Norway and Sweden.

ddkto 6y ago

Central banks are keeping a close eye on it, so I think we’ve crossed the ‘remotely plausible’ line: “Earlier this year, Deputy Governor Tim Lane spoke about the circumstances when it might make sense for the Bank of Canada to issue our own digital currency. This includes a situation in which most Canadians stopped using bank notes. We don’t believe that a digital currency is required at this time. But we are moving forward with contingency planning so that if we ever judged that we should issue a digital currency, we would be ready.” (https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/06/opening-statement-160620/ https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/06/opening-statement-160620...)

bauerd 6y ago

Supermarkets already exist that don't accept cash (in NL at least)

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
Isn't that the case for the Amazon stores?
- reaperducer 6y ago
  In some states, not accepting cash at a public retail establishment is illegal. It's seen as a method of discrimination. The advent of Amazon stores has started a small wave of legislation in this direction.
eythian 6y ago
AH also doesn't accept credit card. Not sure what non-locals are supposed to do if they don't have a maestro card. I guess there aren't many non-locals at the moment, but it must be weird for cash-accustomed Germans visiting.
- bauerd 6y ago
  I'm German and was quite surprised indeed :-)
- oxfeed65261 6y ago
  AH?
  - bauerd 6y ago
    https://www.ah.nl/ https://www.ah.nl/

vetinari 6y ago

That would depend on a country. Sweden? Probably easy. South-Eastern Asia? 100 years would be too optimistic.

readarticle 6y ago
I’ve never been nor kept up with SEA, but this is still surprising to hear! I would have assumed WeChat type mobile payments situations were well in place, is cash really that dominant or are there other factors?
- vetinari 6y ago
  One reason is, that cashless transfers costs money; e.g. the card processing companies in their contracts disallow the vendors to increase the prices for customers using their payment system, compared to other means of payments. So effectively all the cash paying customers subsidy the electronic payments systems, while not having the convenience of not using cash. This part of the contract is not followed in SEA countries. If you want to pay with something that carries a fee, you are going to pay the fee on top of the price. Logically, most people will choose to pay cash then. The second reason is taxes. Most small vendors do not bother with taxing their incomes; they are too poor for that anyway, every coin helps. With electronic ledgers documenting all the transactions, that would be much more difficult. The local IRSes do not bother with chasing these people, they know that the price would be higher than revenue; so they check only businesses with significant enough turnover.
  - mcv 6y ago
    Cash payments also cost money. Not small interpersonal payments, but for larger shops, storing cash safely, transferring it safely to a bank to have counted and deposit it, costs significant money. Many shops prefer electronic payment for that reason, and voluntarily eat the costs associated with it, because it's still cheaper than cash. Of course that only works if electronic payment is cheap. This is not the case with US credit card companies.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

chrisseaton 6y ago

Cash is already going away in some countries. Almost nobody pays for anything with cash in the UK anymore.

duncanawoods 6y ago
Small shops with card fees is the last remaining hold out for me. Payment systems should be nationalised and run by a country's central bank. It's a very boring infrastructure equivalent to roads. There shouldn't be a private company taxing every single transaction someone makes. Do that and the small stores can drop the fees.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  I’m not sure I see your logic here. Do you think the payment networks will be cheaper to operate if they’re run by the government? Or would you prefer an actual tax to the fees you’re comparing to taxes? Do you expect banks would drop their transaction fees? Do you think payment gateways would drop their fees? Do you think payment terminals would become free, and their networks free to use?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - artifact_44 6y ago
    Yeah, that is the purpose of a functional government.
  - mcv 6y ago
    Banks have already dropped their transaction fees. Simple bank transactions in the EU are free. iDeal payment is either free or costs about 25 cents.
    - AmericanChopper 6y ago
      In the EU it’s illegal for a merchant to charge a different price based on payment method (iirc), but merchants are most certainly still charged transaction fees for card payments. SEPA transfers still incur fees too. There is a huge number of service providers involved in every single card payment, and that service infrastructure only exists because people pay to use it. It absolutely wouldn’t be strange for the 2-3% fee a merchant is charged for processing a transaction to be divided up between more than 10 service providers.

scandox 6y ago

It is I'm afraid. Covid has greatly accelerated this process.

usr1106 6y ago

I have not used any cash since beginning of April. Normally I use more cash than the average person in my situation here. But since corona using cash is often seen as being anti-social, disrespecting other's health, so I did not want to be provocative. Last week libraries fully opened and I took a couple of photocopies for 30 cents/page. They have stopped accepting cash, so I paid by credit card. This is Finland, YMMV.