4 ms·

And in about 4 lines of code I can use a timeout or PeriodicalExecuter to periodically check the the visibility of these elements and revert them if necessary.

by donohoe 16y ago

And in about 4 lines of code I can use a timeout or PeriodicalExecuter to periodically check the the visibility of these elements and revert them if necessary. I can have it deployed on http://graphics8.nytimes.com/js/common.js http://graphics8.nytimes.com/js/common.js which is on every page within the next 20 minutes (if I skipped code review etc). Any developer here at the Times could do that and anything else that was required. The point is I won't. We'd rather fix bugs that affect our readers and work on making the site better. Thats much more rewarding. However if you feel that the Times content is worth writing a new browser extension for, or all the hours you spend keeping on top of updating code as we change DIV id and class names.... then maybe, just maybe, there might be something on the Times site of value? Maybe worth (dare I say it...) actually paying for.... ? Gasp! UPDATE: Hi NiemanLab & This is just my own personal opinion :)

notphilatall 16y ago
Right, and I could again disable your timer, which would just lead to a JS arms race. Why send the content to the non-authenticated client in the first place? Wait to get the confirmation that the person paid or is within quota, and then get the content via a POST request... Edit: I'm not condoning stealing content, just wondering why you're depending on the client to self-censor.
- msy 16y ago
  Because the point is not to lock the NYT's content inside an impenetrable DRM fortress, it's to get those that consume its content the most to contribute to its production costs. I don't think the paywall has been structured very well but I do think anyone who choses to circumvent it to keep accessing the content for free is going to feel more than a little rueful if it stops being produced at all.
ebiester 16y ago
1. This is more for the amusement of people who don't care, who will buy or not buy based on the value proposition. It's not the professional who is going to take advantage of this -- those of us in startup mode don't need the time sink of keeping up with the news, those of us not in startup mode have the money to buy. 2. That said, this is useful for the high school or college student who doesn't have the 20 dollars to spend. I'd be more worried about people bypassing your page and just emailing the articles to each other, actually.
- esmooov 16y ago
  "...those of us in startup mode don't need the time sink of keeping up with the news..." And that is why startups are rarely successful.
  - RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
    I'm confused. Do you really think not keeping up with the news is the primary reason for the failure of startups? Really? Or did you just think it was a snappy retort? If you really do think that the primary reason most startups fail is because they're not keeping up with the news, I'd really, really like to understand your point of view - I have a lot to learn. Thanks.
    - ebiester 16y ago
      I read it as: startups fail because they're not singularly minded.
      - RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
        I don't see how you can get that. The exchange was: > "...those of us in startup mode don't need > the time sink of keeping up with the news..." That's saying that startups already don't have enough time to do what they need, so even more time sinks are a Bad Thing(tm) The comment then was: > And that is why startups are rarely successful. > ^^^^ The "that" seems to be referring to not keeping up with the news. That, in turn, then says to me that not keeping up with the news is the primary source of failure. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear what he actually meant. I certainly can't parse it as you suggest.
- donohoe 16y ago
  That said, this is useful for the high school or college student who doesn't have the 20 dollars to spend I hear that a lot. Lots of people can't afford a subscription. I understand that. A lot of the same people say its too much yet they spend more at Starbucks for their daily Venti, sugar-free, non-fat, vanilla soy, double shot, decaf, no foam, extra hot, Peppermint White Chocolate Mocha with light whip and extra syrup :)
yahelc 16y ago
Honest question: How is the paywall enforced for users with JavaScript disabled?
- donohoe 16y ago
  I'd need to double-check but its my understanding that getting the prompt to subscribe is not Javascript dependent.
eof 16y ago
And maybe you're a 14 year old who really wanted to read something on NYT or in some country where it's hard to give money to NYT. You could also just keep data from being given to the user in the first place, but you won't do that, either.
tomjen3 16y ago
>However if you feel that the Times content is worth writing a new browser extension for, or all the hours you spend keeping on top of updating code as we change DIV id and class names.... then maybe, just maybe, there might be something on the Times site of value? I don't care about most of the content, but like Feynman picking safes the interesting thing is the intellectual challenge of seeing if one can break the lock. Also last time I tried to sign up (back when it was free) doing so was a total pain in the ass, so I ended up deleting the cookies instead.

by donohoe 16y ago

notphilatall 16y ago

Right, and I could again disable your timer, which would just lead to a JS arms race. Why send the content to the non-authenticated client in the first place? Wait to get the confirmation that the person paid or is within quota, and then get the content via a POST request... Edit: I'm not condoning stealing content, just wondering why you're depending on the client to self-censor.

msy 16y ago
Because the point is not to lock the NYT's content inside an impenetrable DRM fortress, it's to get those that consume its content the most to contribute to its production costs. I don't think the paywall has been structured very well but I do think anyone who choses to circumvent it to keep accessing the content for free is going to feel more than a little rueful if it stops being produced at all.

ebiester 16y ago

1. This is more for the amusement of people who don't care, who will buy or not buy based on the value proposition. It's not the professional who is going to take advantage of this -- those of us in startup mode don't need the time sink of keeping up with the news, those of us not in startup mode have the money to buy. 2. That said, this is useful for the high school or college student who doesn't have the 20 dollars to spend. I'd be more worried about people bypassing your page and just emailing the articles to each other, actually.

esmooov 16y ago
"...those of us in startup mode don't need the time sink of keeping up with the news..." And that is why startups are rarely successful.
- RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
  I'm confused. Do you really think not keeping up with the news is the primary reason for the failure of startups? Really? Or did you just think it was a snappy retort? If you really do think that the primary reason most startups fail is because they're not keeping up with the news, I'd really, really like to understand your point of view - I have a lot to learn. Thanks.
  - ebiester 16y ago
    I read it as: startups fail because they're not singularly minded.
    - RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
      I don't see how you can get that. The exchange was: > "...those of us in startup mode don't need > the time sink of keeping up with the news..." That's saying that startups already don't have enough time to do what they need, so even more time sinks are a Bad Thing(tm) The comment then was: > And that is why startups are rarely successful. > ^^^^ The "that" seems to be referring to not keeping up with the news. That, in turn, then says to me that not keeping up with the news is the primary source of failure. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear what he actually meant. I certainly can't parse it as you suggest.
donohoe 16y ago
That said, this is useful for the high school or college student who doesn't have the 20 dollars to spend I hear that a lot. Lots of people can't afford a subscription. I understand that. A lot of the same people say its too much yet they spend more at Starbucks for their daily Venti, sugar-free, non-fat, vanilla soy, double shot, decaf, no foam, extra hot, Peppermint White Chocolate Mocha with light whip and extra syrup :)

yahelc 16y ago

Honest question: How is the paywall enforced for users with JavaScript disabled?

donohoe 16y ago
I'd need to double-check but its my understanding that getting the prompt to subscribe is not Javascript dependent.

eof 16y ago

And maybe you're a 14 year old who really wanted to read something on NYT or in some country where it's hard to give money to NYT. You could also just keep data from being given to the user in the first place, but you won't do that, either.

tomjen3 16y ago

>However if you feel that the Times content is worth writing a new browser extension for, or all the hours you spend keeping on top of updating code as we change DIV id and class names.... then maybe, just maybe, there might be something on the Times site of value? I don't care about most of the content, but like Feynman picking safes the interesting thing is the intellectual challenge of seeing if one can break the lock. Also last time I tried to sign up (back when it was free) doing so was a total pain in the ass, so I ended up deleting the cookies instead.