4 ms·

The problem with all these "Apple is being nasty to me" stories that have been appearing recently is that there appears to be a strong smell of "two sides to ev

The problem with all these "Apple is being nasty to me" stories that have been appearing recently is that there appears to be a strong smell of "two sides to every story". I have not read the blog post above fully, but a speed-read suggests that the author was publicly distributing an app through TestFlight rather than App Store. I am not accusing anyone of anything here. But if my speed-read is accurate, then its not at all surprising Apple have taken issue with him. TestFlight is a dev tool. Its not for production deployment. Its meant for beta testing.

hadrien01 6y ago
It seems to be very clearly as a temporary beta: https://www.mignori.com/beta/ https://www.mignori.com/beta/
- threeseed 6y ago
  10 months doesn't sound all that temporary.
  - bluesign 6y ago
    It is more like 3 years.
  - aboringusername 6y ago
    Games on early access can be there for years...Software can remain on beta for the same duration too depending on how the developer feels. We see terrible software all the time now because it's rushed to GM because that's what you need to do, apparently.
  - flurdy 6y ago
    GMail was in beta for 5 years.
gman83 6y ago
Yeah he's been distributing the app through TestFlight with the link on his website for three years.
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 6y ago
  If that was the issue surely Apple would tell him? Why keep such information a secret?
taurath 6y ago
Having worked at large companies - Apple is not a nice company especially to their app platform users. They will hold your app hostage whenever they want something. They play hardball (read: act like immoral sociopaths) because service revenue is how they justify their 13 figure valuation to their shareholders.
bluesign 6y ago
Yeah probably this can be related considering "Mignori 3 was published on TestFlight in 2017 and Apple approved it."
spzb 6y ago
That sounds plausible. He claims to have 200 beta users without having been through app review. TestFlight only permits 25 internal testers [1] (you can have 10,000 external testers but the app has to go through review first). Something smells off. [1] https://developer.apple.com/testflight/ https://developer.apple.com/testflight/
- p49k 6y ago
  The author states in the article that it did go through review.
  - spzb 6y ago
    Does he? This is the portion I was basing my comment on : "The app has been sitting on TestFlight for 3 years now, it has around 200 beta users, and if anything, the only reason I can think of, is that Apple thinks I decided to unofficially deploy the app with TestFlight without going through the formal review."
    - amatecha 6y ago
      I guess there's the implication it had some form of review when he says: "Mignori 3 was published on TestFlight in 2017 and Apple approved it."
  - jmuguy 6y ago
    In order to allow external testers, not on your company Apple account, you have a sort of mini review. It’s not the same as a full review although I don’t know the difference.
bad_user 6y ago
Author says that he develops app in his free time, did not have time to push it to app store properly and that he has 200 beta testers. Apps with a public invitation link for testing are common and if the delay is the problem here, then Apple should have said so. What's completely unacceptable here is that Apple does not specifically say what the author did wrong and this can't be defended by apologists. What is surprising or not coming from Apple is irrelevant, stop normalizing this abusive behavior from app store gate keepers.
- rbrtl 6y ago
  But it's not just the app marketplace providers. It has become the tech-company norm to shut people out of their systems without rhyme or reason. It's outrageous, but people rag on Apple disproportionately, as though their model (curated App Store vs free-for-all) is the issue. We need sweeping technology reform from the top. Governments need to start understanding the technology that they oversee, not just dealing on a 'business level' with lobbyists and execs who will do anything to maintain their autonomy. When these companies are service providers to a majority of the population (in aggregate, or individually) they must be treated as infrastructure providers and held to basic standards of accountability, transparency, and governance.
- JimDabell 6y ago
  > Author says that he develops app in his free time, did not have time to push it to app store properly and that he has 200 beta testers. Apps with a public invitation link for testing are common and if the delay is the problem here, then Apple should have said so. I agree that Apple’s lack of communication with developers is a massive problem, but I also think there are a couple of gaps in his story that need filling in. TestFlight betas expire after a short amount of time – one or two months, if I remember correctly. He says the application has been available through TestFlight for three years. This means that he will have had to publish a new build well over a dozen times to keep it active for this amount of time. And if it’s already on TestFlight with external testers, it’s really not much effort at all to push it live. The build is already in Apple’s system – you've got to fill out a couple more form fields and click submit. So looking at it that way… he gets hundreds of users, keeps pushing new builds to those users on a regular basis for three years, but never submits it to go through the public App Store review process. If I were Apple, I’d think he was probably trying to bypass the review process as well. Apps with a public invitation link are common, but this behaviour is not. But yes, they should talk to him about it and this is a failure on Apple’s part even if he is acting suspiciously. I’ve been saying for a while that Apple need a VP of Developer Relations to take ownership of this type of thing, because it seems clear nobody owns it at the moment.
RubenvanE 6y ago
But to what extent is it 'publicly distributing' when the app has only 200 users. It sounds more like an extended beta than a 'clever' way to circumvent the app review process. And, as the author extensively explains, the major sin of Apple is not that they removed the app from Testflight, but that threaten to suspend his developer account completely and give no explanation _why_, even after multiple attempts of the author to reach out to Apple to solve this situation.
dan1234 6y ago
> TestFlight is a dev tool. Its not for production deployment. Its meant for beta testing. If that's the case, surely the better action would be for Apple to just remove the app from Testflight (and maybe reset the list so testers have to sign up again)?
tuwtuwtuwtuw 6y ago
There's not two sides of every story as long as Apple acts the way they do. As for TestFlight lengths - if you are required to guess what the issue is you have already proven his point.

hadrien01 6y ago

It seems to be very clearly as a temporary beta: https://www.mignori.com/beta/ https://www.mignori.com/beta/

threeseed 6y ago
10 months doesn't sound all that temporary.
- bluesign 6y ago
  It is more like 3 years.
- aboringusername 6y ago
  Games on early access can be there for years...Software can remain on beta for the same duration too depending on how the developer feels. We see terrible software all the time now because it's rushed to GM because that's what you need to do, apparently.
- flurdy 6y ago
  GMail was in beta for 5 years.

gman83 6y ago

Yeah he's been distributing the app through TestFlight with the link on his website for three years.

tuwtuwtuwtuw 6y ago
If that was the issue surely Apple would tell him? Why keep such information a secret?

taurath 6y ago

Having worked at large companies - Apple is not a nice company especially to their app platform users. They will hold your app hostage whenever they want something. They play hardball (read: act like immoral sociopaths) because service revenue is how they justify their 13 figure valuation to their shareholders.

bluesign 6y ago

Yeah probably this can be related considering "Mignori 3 was published on TestFlight in 2017 and Apple approved it."

spzb 6y ago

That sounds plausible. He claims to have 200 beta users without having been through app review. TestFlight only permits 25 internal testers [1] (you can have 10,000 external testers but the app has to go through review first). Something smells off. [1] https://developer.apple.com/testflight/ https://developer.apple.com/testflight/

p49k 6y ago
The author states in the article that it did go through review.
- spzb 6y ago
  Does he? This is the portion I was basing my comment on : "The app has been sitting on TestFlight for 3 years now, it has around 200 beta users, and if anything, the only reason I can think of, is that Apple thinks I decided to unofficially deploy the app with TestFlight without going through the formal review."
  - amatecha 6y ago
    I guess there's the implication it had some form of review when he says: "Mignori 3 was published on TestFlight in 2017 and Apple approved it."
- jmuguy 6y ago
  In order to allow external testers, not on your company Apple account, you have a sort of mini review. It’s not the same as a full review although I don’t know the difference.

bad_user 6y ago

Author says that he develops app in his free time, did not have time to push it to app store properly and that he has 200 beta testers. Apps with a public invitation link for testing are common and if the delay is the problem here, then Apple should have said so. What's completely unacceptable here is that Apple does not specifically say what the author did wrong and this can't be defended by apologists. What is surprising or not coming from Apple is irrelevant, stop normalizing this abusive behavior from app store gate keepers.

rbrtl 6y ago
But it's not just the app marketplace providers. It has become the tech-company norm to shut people out of their systems without rhyme or reason. It's outrageous, but people rag on Apple disproportionately, as though their model (curated App Store vs free-for-all) is the issue. We need sweeping technology reform from the top. Governments need to start understanding the technology that they oversee, not just dealing on a 'business level' with lobbyists and execs who will do anything to maintain their autonomy. When these companies are service providers to a majority of the population (in aggregate, or individually) they must be treated as infrastructure providers and held to basic standards of accountability, transparency, and governance.
JimDabell 6y ago
> Author says that he develops app in his free time, did not have time to push it to app store properly and that he has 200 beta testers. Apps with a public invitation link for testing are common and if the delay is the problem here, then Apple should have said so. I agree that Apple’s lack of communication with developers is a massive problem, but I also think there are a couple of gaps in his story that need filling in. TestFlight betas expire after a short amount of time – one or two months, if I remember correctly. He says the application has been available through TestFlight for three years. This means that he will have had to publish a new build well over a dozen times to keep it active for this amount of time. And if it’s already on TestFlight with external testers, it’s really not much effort at all to push it live. The build is already in Apple’s system – you've got to fill out a couple more form fields and click submit. So looking at it that way… he gets hundreds of users, keeps pushing new builds to those users on a regular basis for three years, but never submits it to go through the public App Store review process. If I were Apple, I’d think he was probably trying to bypass the review process as well. Apps with a public invitation link are common, but this behaviour is not. But yes, they should talk to him about it and this is a failure on Apple’s part even if he is acting suspiciously. I’ve been saying for a while that Apple need a VP of Developer Relations to take ownership of this type of thing, because it seems clear nobody owns it at the moment.

RubenvanE 6y ago

But to what extent is it 'publicly distributing' when the app has only 200 users. It sounds more like an extended beta than a 'clever' way to circumvent the app review process. And, as the author extensively explains, the major sin of Apple is not that they removed the app from Testflight, but that threaten to suspend his developer account completely and give no explanation _why_, even after multiple attempts of the author to reach out to Apple to solve this situation.

dan1234 6y ago

> TestFlight is a dev tool. Its not for production deployment. Its meant for beta testing. If that's the case, surely the better action would be for Apple to just remove the app from Testflight (and maybe reset the list so testers have to sign up again)?

tuwtuwtuwtuw 6y ago

There's not two sides of every story as long as Apple acts the way they do. As for TestFlight lengths - if you are required to guess what the issue is you have already proven his point.