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At an individual level, China is very good at keeping things on the down-low, keeping out reporters, etc, so I don't think there's a lot of mainstream awareness

by _bxg1 6y ago

At an individual level, China is very good at keeping things on the down-low, keeping out reporters, etc, so I don't think there's a lot of mainstream awareness of the problem. At a nation-state level, the sad truth is that the west didn't enter World War 2 because of the concentration camps. Appeasement was tried right up until Hitler made it clear he didn't intend to stop his conquest after being handed Czechoslovakia on a silver platter. The upperclass was perfectly happy to let him continue doing whatever he wanted within his own country. And China, at least for the foreseeable future, seems much more interested in economic domination than a land war, so it may never provoke true pushback. The U.S. is still pretty unhappy, of course, because it would mean directly supplanting us as the dominant economic power. But the rest of the first-world seems content to wait on the sidelines for a clear winner to emerge, and then to throw in with said winner. I wish I could say humanity is better than this, but, I can't.

verdverm 6y ago
I expect China to lose to itself mainly from oppression and the friction that puts on meaningful progress. China has major problems it keeps kicking down the road. Here, we can at least talk about police brutality while there you go to jail or worse.
- _bxg1 6y ago
  That's the thing: to be frank, China is "smart" with its use of oppression. It doesn't oppress most people unless they go outside the bounds it's set in place. Unlike the average totalitarian state, it provides most of the population a very clear "golden path" to avoiding all of that nastiness. There's a carrot, not just a stick. It uses brutality and oppression and censorship to push people into conformance, to saying what it wants them to say, to playing by its rules. And in exchange, it gives them a genuinely mostly-prosperous lifestyle. It isn't moral, but I do believe it's sustainable. The story is different for the Uighurs, of course. They are oppressed by default. But they're also a minority, so as morally reprehensible as it is, they simply don't carry enough power to matter to the CPC. They can be kept in the shadows, abused, and the majority population either doesn't know or doesn't care. Personally I think this may be the greatest human rights crisis of our time. But unfortunately, in this case, I don't think that will translate to an unsustainable society which eventually collapses.

by _bxg1 6y ago

verdverm 6y ago

I expect China to lose to itself mainly from oppression and the friction that puts on meaningful progress. China has major problems it keeps kicking down the road. Here, we can at least talk about police brutality while there you go to jail or worse.

_bxg1 6y ago
That's the thing: to be frank, China is "smart" with its use of oppression. It doesn't oppress most people unless they go outside the bounds it's set in place. Unlike the average totalitarian state, it provides most of the population a very clear "golden path" to avoiding all of that nastiness. There's a carrot, not just a stick. It uses brutality and oppression and censorship to push people into conformance, to saying what it wants them to say, to playing by its rules. And in exchange, it gives them a genuinely mostly-prosperous lifestyle. It isn't moral, but I do believe it's sustainable. The story is different for the Uighurs, of course. They are oppressed by default. But they're also a minority, so as morally reprehensible as it is, they simply don't carry enough power to matter to the CPC. They can be kept in the shadows, abused, and the majority population either doesn't know or doesn't care. Personally I think this may be the greatest human rights crisis of our time. But unfortunately, in this case, I don't think that will translate to an unsustainable society which eventually collapses.