6 ms·

Chernobyl survivor's message for Japan: Run

35 points by entangld 16y ago

phlux 16y ago
I have been watching documentaries recently of the Chernobyl cleanup - it is stunning. The bravery of the soldiers(or ignorance) is amazing. The fact that they were called "Liquidators" and "BioRobots" is very interesting. It is also interesting that they say they evacuated 100K residents then used 800K liquidators is crazy. If you haven't seen footage of the accident - check it out. When they first drilled into the reactor, they were stunned to find that it was empty. The rods had melted entirely and poured through the bottom of the reactor and fused with sand to make a massive graphite-fuel-rod-glass blob that was extremely radioactive. They got close enough to it to film it.
- Detrus 16y ago
  The Battle of Chernobyl http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319... is a good documentary to check out. They sacrificed hundreds of men in a rush to stave off a secondary explosion that would have made a far larger uninhabitable zone.
- varjag 16y ago
  "Biorobot" was mostly an inside joke. "Liquidator" however was, and is, an official term in former USSR, there are no derogatory connotations with it.
  - phlux 16y ago
    I wasn't really taking any derogatory connotation from either, but both terms still evoke a very [stoic] [serious] [chilling] reaction from me. Note: [] cant quite figure out how to articulate the feeling I get looking at film of these men performing these duties and knowing that they fully are aware that they are doing this and it is going to kill them - but that it MUST be done. That is just serious humanity there.
  - kemiller 16y ago
    "Robot" is already derived from the russian word for work. Is that connected or no?
    - Detrus 16y ago
      Biorobot refers to the people who cleaned up the reactor roof with shovels after a remote controlled shoveling car, a "robot" had its electronics fried from the radiation. The pun is robots are expendable, so are biorobots. It's not related to the work word origin. The biorobots wore handmade suits of lead armor, so they were covered in metal, like robots. I'm getting it from here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319... Even if you speak Russian it's hard to decipher their puns. "Liquidator" is an official term, but also has connotations. Not sure, but I remember it's associated with death squads.
    - bluekeybox 16y ago
      "The word robot was introduced to the public by the Czech interwar writer Karel Čapek in his play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots), published in 1920"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot#Etymology)
    - varjag 16y ago
      Not directly, the word itself is derived from Czech. Biorobot in particular is a sci-fi cliche, which, with official stressing on TV that robots are also involved in clean-up, made the joke.
potatolicious 16y ago
My first reaction was "but there's no way Fukushima even gets close to Chernobyl", but then I realized I sound like a nuclear apologist. So I looked up the most recent news about the plant. The evacuation zone only covers 20km - and the IAEA just recorded levels of 161 uSv/h in a town that far away. That's 1410 mSv/y, compared to 2.4 mSv/y normal from background radiation. These are levels high enough to cause health effects, and one has to wonder why the government has not extended the evacuation radius if there's proof that health-affecting levels of radiation has gotten that far into the general environment. It seems like the US NRC's recommendations are wiser than the Japanese government's. That's a disturbing thought. I really wonder how history will look back upon this - a well-executed response to a unforeseen disaster in the most difficult of circumstances, or an example of governmental coverup exposing civilians to unnecessary danger?
- lispm 16y ago
  The US embassy in Tokyo gives the advice to leave the area of 80km around Fukushima or at least stay indoors. One has to understand that Chernobyl is different. Only one of four running reactors had problems: a core meltdown, an explosion and the burning graphite moderator. Fukushima is different, but possibly worse: four running reactors are involved. Two non-running reactors have cooling problems, too. Full electricity blackout over several days for ALL reactors. Spent fuel stored in seven pools and one dry storage: 1760 tons of spent fuel. The pools without adequate cooling were running dry. The spent fuel is damaged. Smoke escaping. Buildings exploding. Cooling water just sprayed over the buildings... More than one partial meltdown highly likely. Much higher population density. MOX fuel with Plutonium involved. The Ukraine was actually running some of the Chernobyl reactors years after the accident there. I won't expect that any of the Fukushima reactors will run again. Several of them will need some kind of primitive containment to prevent that radiation or radioactive material will escape. Working on that site will be very dangerous for several years... Chernobyl needed several hundred thousand 'liquidators' to work on the single damaged reactor and to clean the surrounding cities and streets. In the hot zone of Chernobyl the liquidators went in with a lead protection and got the radiation dose of a life in a few minutes. In the Fukushima plant there will be several areas with extremely high radiation. From the spent fuel pools to the reactor core areas. This is one huge fucking catastrophe.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
hallmark 16y ago
Being a victim does not make you an expert.[1] It gives you a different perspective, an emotional perspective. There are surely lessons and warnings to be learned through such anecdotes and experiences. But the heightened emotions accompanying a victim's portrayal of an event should give them no more credentials than any other informed, researched perspective. All that said, I have severe sympathy for Natalia and all the other victims and sufferers of Chernobyl and Fukushima. [1] Being victimized can motivate one to become an expert on a topic by way of thorough research after the fact.
- varjag 16y ago
  I think an important lesson here is that none of those people are in official death toll of the incident. They died long enough after the incident to not be considered radiaton-induced deaths by WHO standard. Yet the fact that only one of the crew lived to their 50s certainly poses some statistical significance, one that authorities are inclined to overlook. Think about it next time you read that Chernobyl had only 40 victims and that's it.
  - hallmark 16y ago
    Nothing I said implied that there weren't a large number of people affected by the Chernobyl disaster. You are making valid points regarding efforts to lowball the count, but it also seems as if you misunderstood my previous comment. To be clear, many people were afflicted by radiation poisoning long after the event. I'm sensitive to the situation in Japan, both in terms of the human tragedy and the FUD, so I think I'll leave it at that.

35 points by entangld 16y ago

phlux 16y ago

I have been watching documentaries recently of the Chernobyl cleanup - it is stunning. The bravery of the soldiers(or ignorance) is amazing. The fact that they were called "Liquidators" and "BioRobots" is very interesting. It is also interesting that they say they evacuated 100K residents then used 800K liquidators is crazy. If you haven't seen footage of the accident - check it out. When they first drilled into the reactor, they were stunned to find that it was empty. The rods had melted entirely and poured through the bottom of the reactor and fused with sand to make a massive graphite-fuel-rod-glass blob that was extremely radioactive. They got close enough to it to film it.

Detrus 16y ago
The Battle of Chernobyl http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319... is a good documentary to check out. They sacrificed hundreds of men in a rush to stave off a secondary explosion that would have made a far larger uninhabitable zone.
varjag 16y ago
"Biorobot" was mostly an inside joke. "Liquidator" however was, and is, an official term in former USSR, there are no derogatory connotations with it.
- phlux 16y ago
  I wasn't really taking any derogatory connotation from either, but both terms still evoke a very [stoic] [serious] [chilling] reaction from me. Note: [] cant quite figure out how to articulate the feeling I get looking at film of these men performing these duties and knowing that they fully are aware that they are doing this and it is going to kill them - but that it MUST be done. That is just serious humanity there.
- kemiller 16y ago
  "Robot" is already derived from the russian word for work. Is that connected or no?
  - Detrus 16y ago
    Biorobot refers to the people who cleaned up the reactor roof with shovels after a remote controlled shoveling car, a "robot" had its electronics fried from the radiation. The pun is robots are expendable, so are biorobots. It's not related to the work word origin. The biorobots wore handmade suits of lead armor, so they were covered in metal, like robots. I'm getting it from here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319... Even if you speak Russian it's hard to decipher their puns. "Liquidator" is an official term, but also has connotations. Not sure, but I remember it's associated with death squads.
  - bluekeybox 16y ago
    "The word robot was introduced to the public by the Czech interwar writer Karel Čapek in his play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots), published in 1920"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot#Etymology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot#Etymology)
  - varjag 16y ago
    Not directly, the word itself is derived from Czech. Biorobot in particular is a sci-fi cliche, which, with official stressing on TV that robots are also involved in clean-up, made the joke.

potatolicious 16y ago

My first reaction was "but there's no way Fukushima even gets close to Chernobyl", but then I realized I sound like a nuclear apologist. So I looked up the most recent news about the plant. The evacuation zone only covers 20km - and the IAEA just recorded levels of 161 uSv/h in a town that far away. That's 1410 mSv/y, compared to 2.4 mSv/y normal from background radiation. These are levels high enough to cause health effects, and one has to wonder why the government has not extended the evacuation radius if there's proof that health-affecting levels of radiation has gotten that far into the general environment. It seems like the US NRC's recommendations are wiser than the Japanese government's. That's a disturbing thought. I really wonder how history will look back upon this - a well-executed response to a unforeseen disaster in the most difficult of circumstances, or an example of governmental coverup exposing civilians to unnecessary danger?

lispm 16y ago
The US embassy in Tokyo gives the advice to leave the area of 80km around Fukushima or at least stay indoors. One has to understand that Chernobyl is different. Only one of four running reactors had problems: a core meltdown, an explosion and the burning graphite moderator. Fukushima is different, but possibly worse: four running reactors are involved. Two non-running reactors have cooling problems, too. Full electricity blackout over several days for ALL reactors. Spent fuel stored in seven pools and one dry storage: 1760 tons of spent fuel. The pools without adequate cooling were running dry. The spent fuel is damaged. Smoke escaping. Buildings exploding. Cooling water just sprayed over the buildings... More than one partial meltdown highly likely. Much higher population density. MOX fuel with Plutonium involved. The Ukraine was actually running some of the Chernobyl reactors years after the accident there. I won't expect that any of the Fukushima reactors will run again. Several of them will need some kind of primitive containment to prevent that radiation or radioactive material will escape. Working on that site will be very dangerous for several years... Chernobyl needed several hundred thousand 'liquidators' to work on the single damaged reactor and to clean the surrounding cities and streets. In the hot zone of Chernobyl the liquidators went in with a lead protection and got the radiation dose of a life in a few minutes. In the Fukushima plant there will be several areas with extremely high radiation. From the spent fuel pools to the reactor core areas. This is one huge fucking catastrophe.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

hallmark 16y ago

Being a victim does not make you an expert.[1] It gives you a different perspective, an emotional perspective. There are surely lessons and warnings to be learned through such anecdotes and experiences. But the heightened emotions accompanying a victim's portrayal of an event should give them no more credentials than any other informed, researched perspective. All that said, I have severe sympathy for Natalia and all the other victims and sufferers of Chernobyl and Fukushima. [1] Being victimized can motivate one to become an expert on a topic by way of thorough research after the fact.

varjag 16y ago
I think an important lesson here is that none of those people are in official death toll of the incident. They died long enough after the incident to not be considered radiaton-induced deaths by WHO standard. Yet the fact that only one of the crew lived to their 50s certainly poses some statistical significance, one that authorities are inclined to overlook. Think about it next time you read that Chernobyl had only 40 victims and that's it.
- hallmark 16y ago
  Nothing I said implied that there weren't a large number of people affected by the Chernobyl disaster. You are making valid points regarding efforts to lowball the count, but it also seems as if you misunderstood my previous comment. To be clear, many people were afflicted by radiation poisoning long after the event. I'm sensitive to the situation in Japan, both in terms of the human tragedy and the FUD, so I think I'll leave it at that.