4 ms·

They catch them with Etsy and LinkedIn. Or at least construct that evidence path post facto? Ok, sure. Seems normal. But is there a Kickstarter legal defense f

They catch them with Etsy and LinkedIn. Or at least construct that evidence path post facto? Ok, sure. Seems normal. But is there a Kickstarter legal defense fund?

rsweeney21 6y ago
I'm curious if you really think that it is ok to set fire to a police car? If so, what's the logic? Because my understanding of the first amendment (i.e. the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances) does not protect you if you commit crimes.
- toiletfuneral 6y ago
  Yeah I think its pretty cool, its not like its someone's life. Whats up with these "why don't you just follow the law" comments? The 'law' is currently designed to let cops kill without consequence so why on earth are you asking me to show any respect to it?
- thewebcount 6y ago
  If the police are indiscriminately killing members of my race simply because they're afraid of people from my race, I don't think a little property damage to draw attention to that fact is really an equivalent response. So yeah, I'm OK with setting fire to a police car in this circumstance. But the bigger question is, did they really find the person doing the work they claimed or did they use parallel construction to hide illegal use of surveillance tools?
  - GhostVII 6y ago
    Based on the metrics I have seen, police are not indiscriminately killing any particular race - deaths from police are not too far off of the crime rates by race. Police killings is a problem, but does not seem to be a problem targeted at any particular race.
    - BlueDingo 6y ago
      Do you think that when police wrongly kill people, they don't also assume the victim is guilty and file it as justified? When they kill a black person during a minor, not violent crime, do you think it's ok because of the correlation with a crime? Also, since police are notorious for hiding and protecting such metrics, care to provide any sources?
      - GhostVII 6y ago
        I don't think it is OK to kill anyone during a minor non-violent crime, I just think that if there were a significant number of police killing black people due to their race you would see it in the numbers. People shot to death by police in the US by race (technically not the same number as are killed, but should be close enough): https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... Percentage of population by race: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218 Homicides by race: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-... Violent crimes by race (2016): https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-... If you are looking at black people in particular, they make up ~23% of the people shot by police while making up ~13% of the population of the US. They commit ~50% of the homicides, and more than 23% of violent crimes such as robbery, assault, and burglary so to me this shows that the police do not have a significant bias towards killing black people, as if there was no discrimination at all you would expect the number of police killings to match the violent crime rates (since violent crimes generally lead to justified police shootings). The root cause of black people being so over-represented in violent crimes may be discrimination. However, the reality is that right now black people commit a significant portion of the violent crimes in the US, and as a result you would expect them to be over-represented in the number of people being killed by police, even without any discrimination by the police. This does not show that police never discriminate against black people, or that police brutality is not a problem, it just shows that when it comes to police killings, it does not seem to be an issue caused by police targeting black people. Personally, I think that the biggest issue is that in the US there seems to be a number of dense areas of significant poverty and violence, which are predominantly black. If you grow up in one of these areas, there is a good chance you will be pulled into this violence and continue the cycle. Discrimination and over-policing of minor crimes just makes this problem worse, as black people in these areas are kept in poverty and with limited options to get out, and people who have the means to move get out of the area just leaving behind the people with no other options.
- WealthVsSurvive 6y ago
  Yes, under certain conditions, setting a police car on fire seems like an ethical action. Welcome to the US. If the police are unaccountable, they're thugs and not police. It's fine to burn the cars of thugs and those that prey upon us.
  - rsweeney21 6y ago
    Those cars that are burning don't belong to the thugs. They belong to American citizens. They were purchased with your tax dollars. They will have to be purchased again with your tax dollars. It's also a crime. I'm all for major changes to policing in the US. Our police departments are far to aggressive. But...seems like we are hurting each other.

They catch them with Etsy and LinkedIn. Or at least construct that evidence path post facto? Ok, sure. Seems normal. But is there a Kickstarter legal defense fund?

rsweeney21 6y ago

I'm curious if you really think that it is ok to set fire to a police car? If so, what's the logic? Because my understanding of the first amendment (i.e. the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances) does not protect you if you commit crimes.

toiletfuneral 6y ago
Yeah I think its pretty cool, its not like its someone's life. Whats up with these "why don't you just follow the law" comments? The 'law' is currently designed to let cops kill without consequence so why on earth are you asking me to show any respect to it?
thewebcount 6y ago
If the police are indiscriminately killing members of my race simply because they're afraid of people from my race, I don't think a little property damage to draw attention to that fact is really an equivalent response. So yeah, I'm OK with setting fire to a police car in this circumstance. But the bigger question is, did they really find the person doing the work they claimed or did they use parallel construction to hide illegal use of surveillance tools?
- GhostVII 6y ago
  Based on the metrics I have seen, police are not indiscriminately killing any particular race - deaths from police are not too far off of the crime rates by race. Police killings is a problem, but does not seem to be a problem targeted at any particular race.
  - BlueDingo 6y ago
    Do you think that when police wrongly kill people, they don't also assume the victim is guilty and file it as justified? When they kill a black person during a minor, not violent crime, do you think it's ok because of the correlation with a crime? Also, since police are notorious for hiding and protecting such metrics, care to provide any sources?
    - GhostVII 6y ago
      I don't think it is OK to kill anyone during a minor non-violent crime, I just think that if there were a significant number of police killing black people due to their race you would see it in the numbers. People shot to death by police in the US by race (technically not the same number as are killed, but should be close enough): https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... Percentage of population by race: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218 Homicides by race: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-... Violent crimes by race (2016): https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-... If you are looking at black people in particular, they make up ~23% of the people shot by police while making up ~13% of the population of the US. They commit ~50% of the homicides, and more than 23% of violent crimes such as robbery, assault, and burglary so to me this shows that the police do not have a significant bias towards killing black people, as if there was no discrimination at all you would expect the number of police killings to match the violent crime rates (since violent crimes generally lead to justified police shootings). The root cause of black people being so over-represented in violent crimes may be discrimination. However, the reality is that right now black people commit a significant portion of the violent crimes in the US, and as a result you would expect them to be over-represented in the number of people being killed by police, even without any discrimination by the police. This does not show that police never discriminate against black people, or that police brutality is not a problem, it just shows that when it comes to police killings, it does not seem to be an issue caused by police targeting black people. Personally, I think that the biggest issue is that in the US there seems to be a number of dense areas of significant poverty and violence, which are predominantly black. If you grow up in one of these areas, there is a good chance you will be pulled into this violence and continue the cycle. Discrimination and over-policing of minor crimes just makes this problem worse, as black people in these areas are kept in poverty and with limited options to get out, and people who have the means to move get out of the area just leaving behind the people with no other options.
WealthVsSurvive 6y ago
Yes, under certain conditions, setting a police car on fire seems like an ethical action. Welcome to the US. If the police are unaccountable, they're thugs and not police. It's fine to burn the cars of thugs and those that prey upon us.
- rsweeney21 6y ago
  Those cars that are burning don't belong to the thugs. They belong to American citizens. They were purchased with your tax dollars. They will have to be purchased again with your tax dollars. It's also a crime. I'm all for major changes to policing in the US. Our police departments are far to aggressive. But...seems like we are hurting each other.