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I am surprised at how unforgiving everyone is here. Zoom owned their mistakes publicly and trying to improve on that as soon as possible. How much more can you

I am surprised at how unforgiving everyone is here. Zoom owned their mistakes publicly and trying to improve on that as soon as possible. How much more can you get ? Looking back you can see such incidents with all kinds of companies like faang. Don’t buy into surface level news and get outraged. This is a fantastic product and I think they deserve a chance to correct themselves.

jiggawatts 6y ago
People are conflating the two types of correction: 1) Adding a missing feature, which is a form of technical correction. 2) Fixing the corporate culture and their attitude to their customers. This is a form of non-technical correction. Zoom has done a half-arsed job of (1), and one could legitimately argue that it's too little, too late. But the real issue is that nothing indicates that (2) has improved in any way. Fundamentally, the Zoom corporate default is "lie to the customers and when caught, double-down". They're taking a page from Trump's book. I'm sure you don't need me to explain why that particular management style is unpopular here. For a recent example, see how PostgreSQL fixed a technical issue discovered by Jepsen. They were advertising on their website that they had a certain technical guarantee related to serializability of transactions. Turns out there was an error -- an honest mistake. They immediately corrected the issue. People trusted them more because of this management attitude. [1] Now compare with nearly the exact same technical issue with MongoDB discovered by Jepsen. Mongo's website repeatedly lied about their data integrity features, even referencing the Jepsen test as proof! Tests they failed! It's like the snake oil salesman saying "scientifically tested" as if it's a good thing that every scientific test proved that it's just oil and does nothing. Mongo was rightly derided and mocked.[2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23499667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23499667 > Personally, this kind of thing actually gives me _more_ confidence in Postgres rather than less. The core team's responsiveness to this bug report was incredibly impressive. [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23285768 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23285768 > In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous.
0xy 6y ago
The difference is that Zoom is developed almost entirely within China, making them beholden to CCP influence and laws. Can you name a single company in China that offers true E2EE? All the messaging apps are utterly compromised and running real-time surveillance and censoring, for example.

jiggawatts 6y ago

People are conflating the two types of correction: 1) Adding a missing feature, which is a form of technical correction. 2) Fixing the corporate culture and their attitude to their customers. This is a form of non-technical correction. Zoom has done a half-arsed job of (1), and one could legitimately argue that it's too little, too late. But the real issue is that nothing indicates that (2) has improved in any way. Fundamentally, the Zoom corporate default is "lie to the customers and when caught, double-down". They're taking a page from Trump's book. I'm sure you don't need me to explain why that particular management style is unpopular here. For a recent example, see how PostgreSQL fixed a technical issue discovered by Jepsen. They were advertising on their website that they had a certain technical guarantee related to serializability of transactions. Turns out there was an error -- an honest mistake. They immediately corrected the issue. People trusted them more because of this management attitude. [1] Now compare with nearly the exact same technical issue with MongoDB discovered by Jepsen. Mongo's website repeatedly lied about their data integrity features, even referencing the Jepsen test as proof! Tests they failed! It's like the snake oil salesman saying "scientifically tested" as if it's a good thing that every scientific test proved that it's just oil and does nothing. Mongo was rightly derided and mocked.[2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23499667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23499667 > Personally, this kind of thing actually gives me _more_ confidence in Postgres rather than less. The core team's responsiveness to this bug report was incredibly impressive. [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23285768 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23285768 > In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous.

0xy 6y ago

The difference is that Zoom is developed almost entirely within China, making them beholden to CCP influence and laws. Can you name a single company in China that offers true E2EE? All the messaging apps are utterly compromised and running real-time surveillance and censoring, for example.