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Great replies thank you. I’ll get to it: Had highly addictive substances in mind. And agree our system is forcing that money south. Obviously not all of it come

Great replies thank you. I’ll get to it: Had highly addictive substances in mind. And agree our system is forcing that money south. Obviously not all of it comes from MX. Next step isn’t clear re highly addictive drugs. Yeah 50 steps from now of people want to do whatever and law enforcement gets out of the way and we can provide those people solutions to get off drugs or exist on them without turning to crime? Something like this. The ‘highly addictive’ is a key feature which I feel sad about. Some of those substances are as hard to get away from has asking someone to unlearn English or Physically stop opening their eyes for the Rest of Their lives. Like literally the analogies are really far more appealing than kicking those habits, quite nearly 2nd handedly certain. We have a lot of stuff to complain about , and everything needs to be torn apart and rebuilt. But social cause and international crime - falling into the hands of highly successful corporate thinkers (us) where we have a bias for action and are better than insulated from unseen errors but encouraged to rage forth and develop and experiment and invent. Only here from everything I have read, 1) Agree with the need 2) but we have no fucking clue what we’re doing Please share stuff to read if anything comes to mind. I’m especially interested in learning about better understood insights on action here (non of this refers to immediate action on racism/police) but more about homelessness, drug policy. Cheers

pessimizer 6y ago
If people can't get off drugs, provide them with a supply of the drug, therapy, and health care. The lifestyle and life expectancy of a drug addict is 95% society, 5% the effect of the drug on the body. Heroin addicts can work as hard as anyone else, and tend to, but all of that work is put into pursuing the next dose of a drug that costs 5¢ to industrially manufacture.
Reelin 6y ago
I think there are an awful lot of misconceptions about "highly addictive" substances. Yes, they're addictive. That doesn't magically ruin peoples lives though. For a really obvious example, consider alcohol. For a slightly less obvious one, consider that the stimulants prescribed for ADHD are by and large amphetamines (in fact methamphetamine itself is one of them). When a significant percentage of the population is consuming the equivalent of meth on a daily basis and not experiencing significant issues it strikes me as extremely misguided to attempt to pin addiction issues on the substances alone. Regarding addiction itself, I'd suggest that life circumstances has much more to do with it than anything else. (There is research regarding this but I don't have it to hand right now.) One of the reasons addicts commit crimes is to get money to pay for drugs. However, they generally pay significantly higher prices for lower quality products compared to the local pharmacy. They wouldn't need to commit crimes in many cases if the drugs themselves were more affordable. This is entirely due to prohibition and the black market. Another common reason they commit crimes is because many of them struggle to obtain good jobs and stable housing. Much of the time this is due to their criminal record, which is often due to a drug related arrest, which is again entirely due to prohibition. Add to this the observation (already noted elsewhere in the thread) that prohibition singlehandedly fuels much of the black market and thus much of organized crime throughout the world. It also (often as a direct result) drives police militarization, widespread surveillance, and authoritarian political agendas. As far as I'm concerned, the moral panic surrounding the consumption of intoxicating substances has singlehandedly caused a significant portion of (possibly even the majority of) society's ills at this point.
- flattone 6y ago
  I have been closer to drugs/dealers and crime since I was about 12 than a PhD to books. Your heart and faith is beautiful, and it’s very very true in some instances. Really wonderful bright people get swept up. But there are some people out there like cities worth who are just wired for a different ‘normal’ (re crime). I’ve ran with them and even years in their capacity for exploring new levels of instilling fear in innocent people and demonstrating carelessness for property, hard work, and vulnerability. . I can’t type specifics.. just out of a learned built in anxiety over even getting this into it. People get way f*g addicted. By 8th grade thanks to people smoking oxy, the gentle cool kid from the nicer end of town was stealing cars and punching his mom in the face for cig money. If that is t addiction night and day who is this person behavior 180 degree change strictly due to the pursuit of or gap of time between the possibility of having another hit of whatever. Rant but struck chord
  - Reelin 6y ago
    > I have been closer to drugs/dealers and crime since I was about 12 than a PhD to books. Then in my opinion you have been surrounded (and your views significantly influenced) by a vicious cycle which is fueled by prohibition. The entire situation is directly analogous to the US prohibition of alcohol in the early 20th century. It should be incredibly obvious in hindsight how that directly caused harm and failed to solve any problems. > there like cities worth who are just wired for a different ‘normal’ (re crime) ... ok, and? That's what we have law enforcement for. How is that related to chemical substances and addiction? (I don't agree with you by the way but I also don't see how such a claim is relevant to the topic at hand.) > thanks to people smoking oxy, the gentle cool kid from the nicer end of town was stealing cars and punching his mom in the face for cig money I'm arguing that such situations aren't at all simple - there's a lot more going on than just "addiction to a chemical". Importantly, I'm arguing that there's no reason to expect decriminalizing various chemicals to result in more of that. (In fact I'm arguing the exact opposite - that decriminalizing various chemicals would result in much less of that the world over.)
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

pessimizer 6y ago

If people can't get off drugs, provide them with a supply of the drug, therapy, and health care. The lifestyle and life expectancy of a drug addict is 95% society, 5% the effect of the drug on the body. Heroin addicts can work as hard as anyone else, and tend to, but all of that work is put into pursuing the next dose of a drug that costs 5¢ to industrially manufacture.

Reelin 6y ago

I think there are an awful lot of misconceptions about "highly addictive" substances. Yes, they're addictive. That doesn't magically ruin peoples lives though. For a really obvious example, consider alcohol. For a slightly less obvious one, consider that the stimulants prescribed for ADHD are by and large amphetamines (in fact methamphetamine itself is one of them). When a significant percentage of the population is consuming the equivalent of meth on a daily basis and not experiencing significant issues it strikes me as extremely misguided to attempt to pin addiction issues on the substances alone. Regarding addiction itself, I'd suggest that life circumstances has much more to do with it than anything else. (There is research regarding this but I don't have it to hand right now.) One of the reasons addicts commit crimes is to get money to pay for drugs. However, they generally pay significantly higher prices for lower quality products compared to the local pharmacy. They wouldn't need to commit crimes in many cases if the drugs themselves were more affordable. This is entirely due to prohibition and the black market. Another common reason they commit crimes is because many of them struggle to obtain good jobs and stable housing. Much of the time this is due to their criminal record, which is often due to a drug related arrest, which is again entirely due to prohibition. Add to this the observation (already noted elsewhere in the thread) that prohibition singlehandedly fuels much of the black market and thus much of organized crime throughout the world. It also (often as a direct result) drives police militarization, widespread surveillance, and authoritarian political agendas. As far as I'm concerned, the moral panic surrounding the consumption of intoxicating substances has singlehandedly caused a significant portion of (possibly even the majority of) society's ills at this point.

flattone 6y ago
I have been closer to drugs/dealers and crime since I was about 12 than a PhD to books. Your heart and faith is beautiful, and it’s very very true in some instances. Really wonderful bright people get swept up. But there are some people out there like cities worth who are just wired for a different ‘normal’ (re crime). I’ve ran with them and even years in their capacity for exploring new levels of instilling fear in innocent people and demonstrating carelessness for property, hard work, and vulnerability. . I can’t type specifics.. just out of a learned built in anxiety over even getting this into it. People get way f*g addicted. By 8th grade thanks to people smoking oxy, the gentle cool kid from the nicer end of town was stealing cars and punching his mom in the face for cig money. If that is t addiction night and day who is this person behavior 180 degree change strictly due to the pursuit of or gap of time between the possibility of having another hit of whatever. Rant but struck chord
- Reelin 6y ago
  > I have been closer to drugs/dealers and crime since I was about 12 than a PhD to books. Then in my opinion you have been surrounded (and your views significantly influenced) by a vicious cycle which is fueled by prohibition. The entire situation is directly analogous to the US prohibition of alcohol in the early 20th century. It should be incredibly obvious in hindsight how that directly caused harm and failed to solve any problems. > there like cities worth who are just wired for a different ‘normal’ (re crime) ... ok, and? That's what we have law enforcement for. How is that related to chemical substances and addiction? (I don't agree with you by the way but I also don't see how such a claim is relevant to the topic at hand.) > thanks to people smoking oxy, the gentle cool kid from the nicer end of town was stealing cars and punching his mom in the face for cig money I'm arguing that such situations aren't at all simple - there's a lot more going on than just "addiction to a chemical". Importantly, I'm arguing that there's no reason to expect decriminalizing various chemicals to result in more of that. (In fact I'm arguing the exact opposite - that decriminalizing various chemicals would result in much less of that the world over.)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]