10 ms·

If I were a renter right now and in an urban area with a lease renewal coming due, I'd 1000% call the mgmt co's bluff. Context: my firm provides back office se

If I were a renter right now and in an urban area with a lease renewal coming due, I'd 1000% call the mgmt co's bluff. Context: my firm provides back office services to 50k+ rental units across the nation and unless you're in some oddly hot market, most mgmt companies currently are holding their breath that their renters don't say anything and renew at the same price. If you're reasonable, you can easily negotiate a price drop and the mgmt co will most likely accept it begrudgingly because they do not have the data to call YOUR bluff. every mgmt co right now is taking whatever they can get and locking it down for as long as they can. happy to respond to individual folks questions but keep in mind that any advice I may provide is not legal nor financial and I guess I should say my posts/comments are my own and do not represent my company's. =)

paulgb 6y ago
Thanks for the insight. Any perspective on NYC specifically?
- tartoran 6y ago
  Lots of people are moving Upstate from NYC and relatively few new people are moving in: schools are closed. During this time of the year lots of youngsters would normally move in but that is not the case. Rents should drop for sure. Realtors are also bluffing the price up because of a higher omission they get. Anecdote: I know a realtor who jacked up the price of an apartment in Queens by $250 because it was supposedly under the market price and the landlord priced it wrong. That realtor found the people to move in, but I think what they did was utterly wrong, greedy, etc So insist, look around and don’t settle for less (in this case for more than you're willing to pay for, and subtract some from that). If there was a good time to bargain now is the time. Be picky! I've seen such oddities in this dirty city, apartments a few feet from the train station - imagine the unbearable noise - which rent for nearly the market price minus 1-200. I've seen apartments with caved in floors rent for almost the market price.
- sickcodebruh 6y ago
  I have no insight into other buildings but management where I live, a pricey 400+ unit in LIC, haven’t budged on anyone’s rent as leases end. Everyone we socialize with (we have a small daughter and there used to be a big crew of babies) has either left or is leaving in the next few months, the garage is less than half full — it’s a ghost town. They’re still raising rents and refused to negotiate with anyone we know. The building is rent stabilized so maybe they fear that lowering the rent will make it impossible for them to hit certain numbers over the next few years?
  - paulgb 6y ago
    > The building is rent stabilized so maybe they fear that lowering the rent will make it impossible for them to hit certain numbers over the next few years? A friend of mine was speculating this as well -- that the market hasn't moved as much as it could because landlords are worried about getting “locked in” at a lower rate. My hunch is that it's not entirely true yet, or else we'd be seeing more concessions (free first month, etc.) that don't impact the stabilized price -- at least in my Manhattan building, even concessions that have been offered (off and on) under normal circumstances are not listed any more.
- rasz 6y ago
  NY is a weird place where you can see same vacant retail spaces sit on teh market for years and years with landlords unwilling to budge doe to perceived loss of paper building value.
doh 6y ago
We just canceled our lease two weeks ago. We had a large apartment in one of the new high-rises in Downtown LA. The last offer was 3 months free and 2 parking spaces free if we stay for 12 month lease, which comes to 34% discount on the rent including parking. Other buildings are offering by default two months rent-free and they will pay the movers if you decide to move in. DTLA is a special place as it has plenty of new supply, but I can imagine that it's not too different in other places across LA.
- slg 6y ago
  For added context and to build off your last point, for years it has been relatively standard for luxury rentals in DTLA to offer somewhere between 4-8 weeks free rent. It might be more appropriate to view this as a single free month with free parking when comparing to other markets.
  - doh 6y ago
    Thank you, that's a good context. In the building where we moved in 3 years ago from SF, they didn't offer any free rent at point as they were completely full. However, the larger point stand. Most building did offer around a month of free rent to new tenants in last couple of years.
    - slg 6y ago
      Interesting, I got 4 weeks free when I moved to the area in 2017. Although I am sure there were places that didn't offer that. The closer a place gets to being full, the more important it is to renew leases at the full sticker price rather than reaching 100% occupancy. I know I was able to bargain down my rent during my last lease renewal because the building was still offering free rent to new residents.
      - doh 6y ago
        We renegotiated 3 times a significant discounts as more supply started seeping in. In our last renewal we got 3 months free and 1 parking spot free. Whenever we spoke with neighbors they were so thankful that they didn't increase the price that they immediately signed. In fact of the maybe 20 people we spoke over the years, none attempted to renegotiate their lease. My expectation is as PPP is now running its course a lot of white collar jobs will be terminated which will put pressure on the housing market as whole. I believe we should see a dramatic drop in prices by early next year (nobody really buys/sells during holidays).
jdhn 6y ago
Do you see this in non-hot markets as well (aka the Midwest)? My lease is up in July, and I don't really want to move, but any chance to knock even $50 off my monthly rent would be nice.
- tartoran 6y ago
  Give it a try, you’ve got nothing to loose. And also look around, you might find something better for the same price or cheaper and possibly nearby. Your landlord would loose a lot more if they don’t make a counter-offer, especially if you’ve been a good tenant
- taylorhou 6y ago
  to give some context (depending on your rent) but anytime a landlord/PM has to place a new tenant, there are leasing fees/commissions (usually) that equate to between 1/2 to a full month's rent. so if your rent is $1000/month, at a $500 leasing fee to the landlord for a new tenant, they are better off just giving you a $40/month discount (minimum) if you just consider the commission. they also have to deal with make ready costs, time, and potentially vacancy which any landlord who is objective would gladly say "you want $50/month off your rent? done!" - i would at least. the only time this doesn't work is in a "hot" rental market where the landlord/PM can charge more for rent and/or have a waitlist (in multifamily scenarios)
closeparen 6y ago
I didn’t try to negotiate down, but I did move up to a much nicer apartment for essentially the same price.
- taylorhou 6y ago
  that's essentially the same thing! congrats!!

paulgb 6y ago

Thanks for the insight. Any perspective on NYC specifically?

tartoran 6y ago
Lots of people are moving Upstate from NYC and relatively few new people are moving in: schools are closed. During this time of the year lots of youngsters would normally move in but that is not the case. Rents should drop for sure. Realtors are also bluffing the price up because of a higher omission they get. Anecdote: I know a realtor who jacked up the price of an apartment in Queens by $250 because it was supposedly under the market price and the landlord priced it wrong. That realtor found the people to move in, but I think what they did was utterly wrong, greedy, etc So insist, look around and don’t settle for less (in this case for more than you're willing to pay for, and subtract some from that). If there was a good time to bargain now is the time. Be picky! I've seen such oddities in this dirty city, apartments a few feet from the train station - imagine the unbearable noise - which rent for nearly the market price minus 1-200. I've seen apartments with caved in floors rent for almost the market price.
sickcodebruh 6y ago
I have no insight into other buildings but management where I live, a pricey 400+ unit in LIC, haven’t budged on anyone’s rent as leases end. Everyone we socialize with (we have a small daughter and there used to be a big crew of babies) has either left or is leaving in the next few months, the garage is less than half full — it’s a ghost town. They’re still raising rents and refused to negotiate with anyone we know. The building is rent stabilized so maybe they fear that lowering the rent will make it impossible for them to hit certain numbers over the next few years?
- paulgb 6y ago
  > The building is rent stabilized so maybe they fear that lowering the rent will make it impossible for them to hit certain numbers over the next few years? A friend of mine was speculating this as well -- that the market hasn't moved as much as it could because landlords are worried about getting “locked in” at a lower rate. My hunch is that it's not entirely true yet, or else we'd be seeing more concessions (free first month, etc.) that don't impact the stabilized price -- at least in my Manhattan building, even concessions that have been offered (off and on) under normal circumstances are not listed any more.
rasz 6y ago
NY is a weird place where you can see same vacant retail spaces sit on teh market for years and years with landlords unwilling to budge doe to perceived loss of paper building value.

doh 6y ago

We just canceled our lease two weeks ago. We had a large apartment in one of the new high-rises in Downtown LA. The last offer was 3 months free and 2 parking spaces free if we stay for 12 month lease, which comes to 34% discount on the rent including parking. Other buildings are offering by default two months rent-free and they will pay the movers if you decide to move in. DTLA is a special place as it has plenty of new supply, but I can imagine that it's not too different in other places across LA.

slg 6y ago
For added context and to build off your last point, for years it has been relatively standard for luxury rentals in DTLA to offer somewhere between 4-8 weeks free rent. It might be more appropriate to view this as a single free month with free parking when comparing to other markets.
- doh 6y ago
  Thank you, that's a good context. In the building where we moved in 3 years ago from SF, they didn't offer any free rent at point as they were completely full. However, the larger point stand. Most building did offer around a month of free rent to new tenants in last couple of years.
  - slg 6y ago
    Interesting, I got 4 weeks free when I moved to the area in 2017. Although I am sure there were places that didn't offer that. The closer a place gets to being full, the more important it is to renew leases at the full sticker price rather than reaching 100% occupancy. I know I was able to bargain down my rent during my last lease renewal because the building was still offering free rent to new residents.
    - doh 6y ago
      We renegotiated 3 times a significant discounts as more supply started seeping in. In our last renewal we got 3 months free and 1 parking spot free. Whenever we spoke with neighbors they were so thankful that they didn't increase the price that they immediately signed. In fact of the maybe 20 people we spoke over the years, none attempted to renegotiate their lease. My expectation is as PPP is now running its course a lot of white collar jobs will be terminated which will put pressure on the housing market as whole. I believe we should see a dramatic drop in prices by early next year (nobody really buys/sells during holidays).

jdhn 6y ago

Do you see this in non-hot markets as well (aka the Midwest)? My lease is up in July, and I don't really want to move, but any chance to knock even $50 off my monthly rent would be nice.

tartoran 6y ago
Give it a try, you’ve got nothing to loose. And also look around, you might find something better for the same price or cheaper and possibly nearby. Your landlord would loose a lot more if they don’t make a counter-offer, especially if you’ve been a good tenant
taylorhou 6y ago
to give some context (depending on your rent) but anytime a landlord/PM has to place a new tenant, there are leasing fees/commissions (usually) that equate to between 1/2 to a full month's rent. so if your rent is $1000/month, at a $500 leasing fee to the landlord for a new tenant, they are better off just giving you a $40/month discount (minimum) if you just consider the commission. they also have to deal with make ready costs, time, and potentially vacancy which any landlord who is objective would gladly say "you want $50/month off your rent? done!" - i would at least. the only time this doesn't work is in a "hot" rental market where the landlord/PM can charge more for rent and/or have a waitlist (in multifamily scenarios)

closeparen 6y ago

I didn’t try to negotiate down, but I did move up to a much nicer apartment for essentially the same price.

taylorhou 6y ago
that's essentially the same thing! congrats!!