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That's a funny hack. However, this looks like conflicting advice: "Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel re

That's a funny hack. However, this looks like conflicting advice: "Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks." If you use a TSA lock, that means they have a key to open up the case and access the firearm without you around. That's a big no-no and could result in problems with the law. You'd also probably want to show up an extra hour early because this could cause long delays. Some airports are notorious for workers who don't know the regulations, don't want to be responsible for any of it, and will refuse to do anything to help you resolve the situation. Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey.

mulmen 6y ago
I agree that paragraph seems contradictory. I guess I have a slightly lower opinion of the TSA now. What’s important is that you don’t have to use a TSA lock. You just have to open it for them if they ask. > Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey. Why?
- SamuelAdams 6y ago
  CPL's are typically granted at the state level, but not all states need to recognize your CPL as valid. So it's perfectly legal for me to fly from Detroit to New York with a firearm, because the TSA staff in Detroit, MI legally recognize my MI CPL. However, the TSA agents in NY do not recognize my MI CPL. As a result when I fly back from NY to MI, I could get arrested for carrying a firearm. More on this here: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-declares-gun-in-luggage-gets-arrested-at-new-york-airport-and-folks-are-frustrated https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-decl...
  - mulmen 6y ago
    That has to do with concealed carry. Putting a firearm in your suitcase does not require a CPL, nor does it require concealed or even open carry. I'm sure it's still legal to transport a firearm in New York. To be clear, this rule can be triggered by a flare gun or starting pistol. Traveling with those seems perfectly reasonable and I don't see why a CPL would be required.
lmm 6y ago
> If you use a TSA lock, that means they have a key to open up the case and access the firearm without you around. That's a big no-no and could result in problems with the law. Why? If a TSA person unlocks it in accordance with their procedures, surely that's fine (and is what they would do anyway, just getting the key from you first)? If a TSA person abuses their position to open your luggage with their master key against their procedures, surely that's not your problem - more akin to a criminal breaking open your luggage than anything else.
- mulmen 6y ago
  The problem is not access to the luggage. The problem is access to the firearm. That is why when you are transporting a firearm TSA does not retain the ability to access the firearm outside of your supervision. TSA's procedures are as robust as a high school recital of A Midsummer Night’s Dream. The TSA knows this and so when it matters (like when firearms are involved) the rules change.
  - lmm 6y ago
    Most locks have master keys and most find their way into the hands of sufficiently motivated criminals, right? Is there any lock you could put on your firearm case for which there wouldn't be authorised people who had the master key to it?
    - mulmen 6y ago
      I don't think your initial assertion is correct and even if it is nothing requires you to use such a lock. Most high security locks can be re-keyed. There's no need for it to be keyed to any existing master. I consider that better than "one of these 6 predefined TSA keys that can be 3d printed oh and also it is labelled." Nor does the threat model of "dedicated attacker" make a lot of sense. If that is your constraint then flying with complete guns is probably not for you. There are easier ways for criminals to get guns than a mole in the TSA or baggage handling. Like, stores. A decent padlock can secure a gun case beyond the "crime of opportunity" level required for protection in a secured environment like an airport. If you're really paranoid you can even build in trap pins so attempting picking or using the wrong key can permanently bind the lock. The point is you are in full control of the lock and don't have a government mandated, well understood backdoor included. Finally, all of this misses the point which is that you can put a firearm such as a starting pistol, flare gun, frame or lower [1] in your luggage and use whatever lock you want. This means you can protect the rest of your stuff from getting swiped by TSA or baggage handlers. [1]: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-ver...

mulmen 6y ago

I agree that paragraph seems contradictory. I guess I have a slightly lower opinion of the TSA now. What’s important is that you don’t have to use a TSA lock. You just have to open it for them if they ask. > Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey. Why?

SamuelAdams 6y ago
CPL's are typically granted at the state level, but not all states need to recognize your CPL as valid. So it's perfectly legal for me to fly from Detroit to New York with a firearm, because the TSA staff in Detroit, MI legally recognize my MI CPL. However, the TSA agents in NY do not recognize my MI CPL. As a result when I fly back from NY to MI, I could get arrested for carrying a firearm. More on this here: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-declares-gun-in-luggage-gets-arrested-at-new-york-airport-and-folks-are-frustrated https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-decl...
- mulmen 6y ago
  That has to do with concealed carry. Putting a firearm in your suitcase does not require a CPL, nor does it require concealed or even open carry. I'm sure it's still legal to transport a firearm in New York. To be clear, this rule can be triggered by a flare gun or starting pistol. Traveling with those seems perfectly reasonable and I don't see why a CPL would be required.

lmm 6y ago

> If you use a TSA lock, that means they have a key to open up the case and access the firearm without you around. That's a big no-no and could result in problems with the law. Why? If a TSA person unlocks it in accordance with their procedures, surely that's fine (and is what they would do anyway, just getting the key from you first)? If a TSA person abuses their position to open your luggage with their master key against their procedures, surely that's not your problem - more akin to a criminal breaking open your luggage than anything else.

mulmen 6y ago
The problem is not access to the luggage. The problem is access to the firearm. That is why when you are transporting a firearm TSA does not retain the ability to access the firearm outside of your supervision. TSA's procedures are as robust as a high school recital of A Midsummer Night’s Dream. The TSA knows this and so when it matters (like when firearms are involved) the rules change.
- lmm 6y ago
  Most locks have master keys and most find their way into the hands of sufficiently motivated criminals, right? Is there any lock you could put on your firearm case for which there wouldn't be authorised people who had the master key to it?
  - mulmen 6y ago
    I don't think your initial assertion is correct and even if it is nothing requires you to use such a lock. Most high security locks can be re-keyed. There's no need for it to be keyed to any existing master. I consider that better than "one of these 6 predefined TSA keys that can be 3d printed oh and also it is labelled." Nor does the threat model of "dedicated attacker" make a lot of sense. If that is your constraint then flying with complete guns is probably not for you. There are easier ways for criminals to get guns than a mole in the TSA or baggage handling. Like, stores. A decent padlock can secure a gun case beyond the "crime of opportunity" level required for protection in a secured environment like an airport. If you're really paranoid you can even build in trap pins so attempting picking or using the wrong key can permanently bind the lock. The point is you are in full control of the lock and don't have a government mandated, well understood backdoor included. Finally, all of this misses the point which is that you can put a firearm such as a starting pistol, flare gun, frame or lower [1] in your luggage and use whatever lock you want. This means you can protect the rest of your stuff from getting swiped by TSA or baggage handlers. [1]: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-ver...