6 ms·

Yes, but you're missing the forest for the trees. A government entity (TSA) had a thing built specifically for their needs ("secure" locks for luggage) and prom

Yes, but you're missing the forest for the trees. A government entity (TSA) had a thing built specifically for their needs ("secure" locks for luggage) and promised they would be the only ones capable of unlocking it. Then somehow the "secret" they promised to protect (physical keys) got leaked out somehow and now the entire thing is security theater. Also I think they used these locks on handgun / firearm containers that were declared when travelers with a CPL or LEO people traveled. Those are typically put into a hard container that is difficult to open unless you unlock the lock. EDIT: last paragraph is wrong, please ignore that. Thanks guys.

hinkley 6y ago
> and now the entire thing is security theater. I am not the one missing the forest for the trees. It has always been security theater. From day 1. What's most galling is that quite a lot of the people participating here are young enough that they don't remember a time before the theater. If you are under 30 your first plane flight you can remember is probably after this all started. Locks are mechanical, and a master key can be built by taking apart a lock and measuring the innards. In some cases you can create a master key by filing down the right teeth on a key you already have. Master keys in apartment buildings are an old, known problem to competitive lockpickers. As other people are pointing out elsewhere in this thread, carrying a firearm requires that you use a lock-lock, not a TSA "lock".
mulmen 6y ago
I don’t think you have to use a TSA lock on luggage with a firearm [1]. If it meets the legal definition of a “firearm” you trigger (get it?) the TSA rules that allow you to use a non-joke lock. Since this includes just the legal firearm you don’t even have to carry an actual gun to prevent the TSA from sniffing your undies. Deviant Ollam gave an (in)famous talk [2] about this at Defcon. [1]: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunit... [2]: https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw
- swimfar 6y ago
  That's a funny hack. However, this looks like conflicting advice: "Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks." If you use a TSA lock, that means they have a key to open up the case and access the firearm without you around. That's a big no-no and could result in problems with the law. You'd also probably want to show up an extra hour early because this could cause long delays. Some airports are notorious for workers who don't know the regulations, don't want to be responsible for any of it, and will refuse to do anything to help you resolve the situation. Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    I agree that paragraph seems contradictory. I guess I have a slightly lower opinion of the TSA now. What’s important is that you don’t have to use a TSA lock. You just have to open it for them if they ask. > Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey. Why?
    - SamuelAdams 6y ago
      CPL's are typically granted at the state level, but not all states need to recognize your CPL as valid. So it's perfectly legal for me to fly from Detroit to New York with a firearm, because the TSA staff in Detroit, MI legally recognize my MI CPL. However, the TSA agents in NY do not recognize my MI CPL. As a result when I fly back from NY to MI, I could get arrested for carrying a firearm. More on this here: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-declares-gun-in-luggage-gets-arrested-at-new-york-airport-and-folks-are-frustrated https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-decl...
      - mulmen 6y ago
        That has to do with concealed carry. Putting a firearm in your suitcase does not require a CPL, nor does it require concealed or even open carry. I'm sure it's still legal to transport a firearm in New York. To be clear, this rule can be triggered by a flare gun or starting pistol. Traveling with those seems perfectly reasonable and I don't see why a CPL would be required.
dlgeek 6y ago
> got leaked out somehow They let the Washington Post take high-res pictures of the masters while supporting them doing a story about the TSA and those got published which was enough to decode the keys.

hinkley 6y ago

> and now the entire thing is security theater. I am not the one missing the forest for the trees. It has always been security theater. From day 1. What's most galling is that quite a lot of the people participating here are young enough that they don't remember a time before the theater. If you are under 30 your first plane flight you can remember is probably after this all started. Locks are mechanical, and a master key can be built by taking apart a lock and measuring the innards. In some cases you can create a master key by filing down the right teeth on a key you already have. Master keys in apartment buildings are an old, known problem to competitive lockpickers. As other people are pointing out elsewhere in this thread, carrying a firearm requires that you use a lock-lock, not a TSA "lock".

mulmen 6y ago

I don’t think you have to use a TSA lock on luggage with a firearm [1]. If it meets the legal definition of a “firearm” you trigger (get it?) the TSA rules that allow you to use a non-joke lock. Since this includes just the legal firearm you don’t even have to carry an actual gun to prevent the TSA from sniffing your undies. Deviant Ollam gave an (in)famous talk [2] about this at Defcon. [1]: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunit... [2]: https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw

swimfar 6y ago
That's a funny hack. However, this looks like conflicting advice: "Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks." If you use a TSA lock, that means they have a key to open up the case and access the firearm without you around. That's a big no-no and could result in problems with the law. You'd also probably want to show up an extra hour early because this could cause long delays. Some airports are notorious for workers who don't know the regulations, don't want to be responsible for any of it, and will refuse to do anything to help you resolve the situation. Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey.
- mulmen 6y ago
  I agree that paragraph seems contradictory. I guess I have a slightly lower opinion of the TSA now. What’s important is that you don’t have to use a TSA lock. You just have to open it for them if they ask. > Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey. Why?
  - SamuelAdams 6y ago
    CPL's are typically granted at the state level, but not all states need to recognize your CPL as valid. So it's perfectly legal for me to fly from Detroit to New York with a firearm, because the TSA staff in Detroit, MI legally recognize my MI CPL. However, the TSA agents in NY do not recognize my MI CPL. As a result when I fly back from NY to MI, I could get arrested for carrying a firearm. More on this here: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-declares-gun-in-luggage-gets-arrested-at-new-york-airport-and-folks-are-frustrated https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-decl...
    - mulmen 6y ago
      That has to do with concealed carry. Putting a firearm in your suitcase does not require a CPL, nor does it require concealed or even open carry. I'm sure it's still legal to transport a firearm in New York. To be clear, this rule can be triggered by a flare gun or starting pistol. Traveling with those seems perfectly reasonable and I don't see why a CPL would be required.

dlgeek 6y ago

> got leaked out somehow They let the Washington Post take high-res pictures of the masters while supporting them doing a story about the TSA and those got published which was enough to decode the keys.