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> The first of these was announced just last week when the Chinese battery-maker that supplies most of the major car makers, including Tesla, revealed it had pr

> The first of these was announced just last week when the Chinese battery-maker that supplies most of the major car makers, including Tesla, revealed it had produced the first "million mile battery". > Contemporary Amperex Technology (CATL) says its new battery is capable of powering a vehicle for more than a million miles (1.2 million, to be precise - or 1.9 million km) over a 16-year lifespan. I keep being told Tesla has some big tech advantage, but here they are buying the same batteries as everyone else.

sojournerc 6y ago
I think Tesla has more mature battery management software that prolongs the life of the battery but that may no longer be true or exclusive.
- close04 6y ago
  Lucid also has quite a bit of data collected from Formula E that should help with battery management.
  - nickik 6y ago
    Formula E is very limited compared to 1000s of cars in all condition with all driving patterns.
ksec 6y ago
They did, Tesla was the first to invest into Gigantic battery production and winning with economy of scale and vertical integration. That was until China has more electric vehicles sold than rest of the world combined. They made 95% of all electric buses in the world. So the economy of scale somewhat shifted. And the rest comes with continual investment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_C...
- duncanawoods 6y ago
  You seem to have missed the bit about Panasonic building all the cells.
  - aeternum 6y ago
    Note that although Panasonic is technically building them, they are doing so inside the Tesla Gigafactory in Nevada. Panasonic wasn't able to deliver the gains that Tesla wanted which strained the relationship and led to Tesla's decision to manufacture cells independently.
- lvs 6y ago
  "winning with economy of scale and vertical integration" Might have been written by a bot.
aeternum 6y ago
They are buying the same batteries currently, but are scheduled to announce an important battery breakthrough sometime this month at "Battery Day". According to leaks, this is known as project roadrunner inside Tesla. They have some unique new patents on battery tech like this one: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2020082019A1/ https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2020082019A1/ A single crystal cathode significantly reduces stress as it has fewer seams. This video provides a great explanation if you're interested in the technical details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=dpe-ajzucTE https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=dpe-ajzucTE
sacred_numbers 6y ago
It's both. They are buying batteries from suppliers in China in order to keep up with demand, but they are also working closely with Panasonic on the chemistry for the majority of their batteries. In addition they are directly funding and performing in-house research on next generation battery chemistries. We also don't have many details about this new CATL battery. Almost all Li-ion batteries are capable of lasting a million miles under the right conditions, so the devil is in the details. A true million mile battery will be able to last a million miles under most real world conditions, which hopefully both this CATL battery and the Tesla million mile battery will be able to do. I think Tesla might have a bit of an advantage there since they control the whole stack, but we will have to see.

sojournerc 6y ago

I think Tesla has more mature battery management software that prolongs the life of the battery but that may no longer be true or exclusive.

close04 6y ago
Lucid also has quite a bit of data collected from Formula E that should help with battery management.
- nickik 6y ago
  Formula E is very limited compared to 1000s of cars in all condition with all driving patterns.

ksec 6y ago

They did, Tesla was the first to invest into Gigantic battery production and winning with economy of scale and vertical integration. That was until China has more electric vehicles sold than rest of the world combined. They made 95% of all electric buses in the world. So the economy of scale somewhat shifted. And the rest comes with continual investment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_C...

duncanawoods 6y ago
You seem to have missed the bit about Panasonic building all the cells.
- aeternum 6y ago
  Note that although Panasonic is technically building them, they are doing so inside the Tesla Gigafactory in Nevada. Panasonic wasn't able to deliver the gains that Tesla wanted which strained the relationship and led to Tesla's decision to manufacture cells independently.
lvs 6y ago
"winning with economy of scale and vertical integration" Might have been written by a bot.

aeternum 6y ago

They are buying the same batteries currently, but are scheduled to announce an important battery breakthrough sometime this month at "Battery Day". According to leaks, this is known as project roadrunner inside Tesla. They have some unique new patents on battery tech like this one: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2020082019A1/ https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2020082019A1/ A single crystal cathode significantly reduces stress as it has fewer seams. This video provides a great explanation if you're interested in the technical details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=dpe-ajzucTE https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=dpe-ajzucTE

sacred_numbers 6y ago

It's both. They are buying batteries from suppliers in China in order to keep up with demand, but they are also working closely with Panasonic on the chemistry for the majority of their batteries. In addition they are directly funding and performing in-house research on next generation battery chemistries. We also don't have many details about this new CATL battery. Almost all Li-ion batteries are capable of lasting a million miles under the right conditions, so the devil is in the details. A true million mile battery will be able to last a million miles under most real world conditions, which hopefully both this CATL battery and the Tesla million mile battery will be able to do. I think Tesla might have a bit of an advantage there since they control the whole stack, but we will have to see.