8 ms·

Does Programming, Motherfucker really scale though? Every process listed is about teams of people Programming Together, Motherfucker. I've seen two people engag

Does Programming, Motherfucker really scale though? Every process listed is about teams of people Programming Together, Motherfucker. I've seen two people engaged in Programming, Motherfucker without Talking to Eachother, Motherfucker and the results were Disastrous, Motherfucker.

zedshaw 16y ago
That's Hacking, Douchebag. This is Programming, Motherfucker.
- TheAmazingIdiot 16y ago
  Why is it I'm expecting a partnership with /b/ and an endowment from GNAA? Oh look, a feature short by Goatse Man and 2girls1cup.
benjaminws 16y ago
Programming, Motherfuckers is FUCK SCALE.
oconnore 16y ago
You can't talk to your colleagues without a Scrum meeting? That seems to be a personal issue, not a methodology issue.
- gaius 16y ago
  It is like that in parts of my company. If I need something, I wander over to the desk of the person who works on it, who I know, and I say, how about it, and he says, cool (or vice versa). The other group write up huge requirements documents, set up Sharepoint sites and wikis, raise tickets and Jiras, you name it, but they never talk to each other and so they get nothing done...
- MartinCron 16y ago
  That's the thing, Scrum basically assumes that all software teams are so dysfunctional that they won't talk to each other unless and until everyone is watching.
  - StrawberryFrog 16y ago
    Scrum! It teaches bad teams good habits! Nothing in scrum stops you talking to anyone at any time. The stand-up makes sure that you have to say a few words to the whole team and other interested parties, daily. I like to read criticisms of scrum, when they're not straw-man ones.
    - kelnos 16y ago
      How was the parent a straw-man? He suggested that teams that can't talk to each other without the prodding of Scrum are dysfunctional (which I happen to agree with). That's not even necessarily a criticism of Scrum, it just points out that Scrum can be good for teams that, as you say, have bad habits.
    - MartinCron 16y ago
      I didn't mean it as a straw-man criticism, just an observation that scrum is very rigid and prescriptive; it's all about the what and the how instead the why. I'm a big believer in trying to persuade people to keep feedback loops short, make teams small and cross-functional, and to design/code/test/ship in the smallest increments possible. At this point, calling an approach agile/scrum/xp carries a lot of baggage. If people don't get the why (e.g. the team isn't small and cross-functional, and people aren't working on tiny increments) it kind of doesn't matter if you get everyone in the room at the same time every day.
fleitz 16y ago
Nothing really scales. There is no process that will allow 100 hacks to make a Michelangelo, if you want a Michelangelo you're going to have to fucking hire him. If this bullshit really worked then corporate IT departments would be the envy of every startup out there. If your software is late/buggy/whatever the solution is rarely adding people / process. It's usually removing people / process. Process is what allows managers to fuck up projects.
- rch 16y ago
  "the solution is rarely adding people / process. It's usually removing people / process" hell yeah.
  - twomuchpizza 16y ago
    If the problem you're trying to solve is that your life is too boring, sure. If the problem is a large software project, nah.
  - DavidSJ 16y ago
    I believe you mean hell yeah, motherfucker.
  - whitmo 16y ago
    Ala the larry ellison story about him improving the productivity of projects by removing people until they started moving.
    - Dylanlacey 16y ago
      More Mythical Man Month.
  - evanlh 16y ago
    You're saying there's too many? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-P4LssMsI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-P4LssMsI It seemed appropriate.
- Kherozen 16y ago
DanielRibeiro 16y ago
Took a while to write a manifesto, after suggesting this on September 7 2010: I'm going to start a post-Agile programming methodology called, "Programming, Motherfucker." It'll be awesome. http://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/23267170323 http://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/23267170323
- mfukar 16y ago
  That's because in the meantime Zed's been Programming, Motherfucker.
j_baker 16y ago
... Only on HN would you see a topic called "Programming, motherfucker" and see a comment asking "But does this scale?"

zedshaw 16y ago

That's Hacking, Douchebag. This is Programming, Motherfucker.

TheAmazingIdiot 16y ago
Why is it I'm expecting a partnership with /b/ and an endowment from GNAA? Oh look, a feature short by Goatse Man and 2girls1cup.

benjaminws 16y ago

Programming, Motherfuckers is FUCK SCALE.

oconnore 16y ago

You can't talk to your colleagues without a Scrum meeting? That seems to be a personal issue, not a methodology issue.

gaius 16y ago
It is like that in parts of my company. If I need something, I wander over to the desk of the person who works on it, who I know, and I say, how about it, and he says, cool (or vice versa). The other group write up huge requirements documents, set up Sharepoint sites and wikis, raise tickets and Jiras, you name it, but they never talk to each other and so they get nothing done...
MartinCron 16y ago
That's the thing, Scrum basically assumes that all software teams are so dysfunctional that they won't talk to each other unless and until everyone is watching.
- StrawberryFrog 16y ago
  Scrum! It teaches bad teams good habits! Nothing in scrum stops you talking to anyone at any time. The stand-up makes sure that you have to say a few words to the whole team and other interested parties, daily. I like to read criticisms of scrum, when they're not straw-man ones.
  - kelnos 16y ago
    How was the parent a straw-man? He suggested that teams that can't talk to each other without the prodding of Scrum are dysfunctional (which I happen to agree with). That's not even necessarily a criticism of Scrum, it just points out that Scrum can be good for teams that, as you say, have bad habits.
  - MartinCron 16y ago
    I didn't mean it as a straw-man criticism, just an observation that scrum is very rigid and prescriptive; it's all about the what and the how instead the why. I'm a big believer in trying to persuade people to keep feedback loops short, make teams small and cross-functional, and to design/code/test/ship in the smallest increments possible. At this point, calling an approach agile/scrum/xp carries a lot of baggage. If people don't get the why (e.g. the team isn't small and cross-functional, and people aren't working on tiny increments) it kind of doesn't matter if you get everyone in the room at the same time every day.

fleitz 16y ago

Nothing really scales. There is no process that will allow 100 hacks to make a Michelangelo, if you want a Michelangelo you're going to have to fucking hire him. If this bullshit really worked then corporate IT departments would be the envy of every startup out there. If your software is late/buggy/whatever the solution is rarely adding people / process. It's usually removing people / process. Process is what allows managers to fuck up projects.

rch 16y ago
"the solution is rarely adding people / process. It's usually removing people / process" hell yeah.
- twomuchpizza 16y ago
  If the problem you're trying to solve is that your life is too boring, sure. If the problem is a large software project, nah.
- DavidSJ 16y ago
  I believe you mean hell yeah, motherfucker.
- whitmo 16y ago
  Ala the larry ellison story about him improving the productivity of projects by removing people until they started moving.
  - Dylanlacey 16y ago
    More Mythical Man Month.
- evanlh 16y ago
  You're saying there's too many? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-P4LssMsI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-P4LssMsI It seemed appropriate.
Kherozen 16y ago

DanielRibeiro 16y ago

Took a while to write a manifesto, after suggesting this on September 7 2010: I'm going to start a post-Agile programming methodology called, "Programming, Motherfucker." It'll be awesome. http://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/23267170323 http://twitter.com/zedshaw/status/23267170323

mfukar 16y ago
That's because in the meantime Zed's been Programming, Motherfucker.

j_baker 16y ago

... Only on HN would you see a topic called "Programming, motherfucker" and see a comment asking "But does this scale?"