6 ms·

Why trust any company that put out the initial policy in the first place? Have they had a fundamental turnover in management, indicating a new pro-privacy cult

Why trust any company that put out the initial policy in the first place? Have they had a fundamental turnover in management, indicating a new pro-privacy culture? Did they move their development out from under the thumb of the CCP? No and no? So what’s changed? If they weren’t trustworthy before, they certainly aren’t now.

adrianmonk 6y ago
One thing that has changed is that their userbase broadened. They were mostly focused on workplace meetings. If that's your focus, then most of your users are employees of some company whose contact information you have. Users with unverified identities are a corner case that you may not feel is worth trying to get right. Thanks to the pandemic, they have millions of new users who use Zoom for personal purposes (meeting with friends and family, etc.). What once was a corner case isn't anymore. It might even be their most common type of user. I'm not arguing that Zoom can necessarily be trusted, but I can see a plausible reason how they could have gotten to where they are on this issue.
- user982 6y ago
  > One thing that has changed is that their userbase broadened. Their userbase changed in the two weeks since they announced their policy?
  - adrianmonk 6y ago
    I agree they should be cluing in by now. I'm just saying it could be growing pains from shifting from a B2B business to a B2C business. That difference has huge effects on product design and on your mindset. Being slow to realign your mindset with reality isn't necessarily the same thing as being dishonest or disreputable. But yeah, while feeling that you can't trust them because they don't know what they're doing is not the same as feeling that you can't trust them because they're in cahoots with someone (governments, etc.) against your interests, in the end they're both forms of feeling that you can't trust them.
- shaggyfrog 6y ago
  They have more users, but so what? They suddenly found (privacy) religion, so now they can be trusted? That certainly sounds like a leap of faith. A blind one. Stop looking at the empty words they say, and start looking at their very intentional and malignant actions over the last few months/years.
  - adrianmonk 6y ago
    I guess "broadened" could be interpreted two ways. I don't mean the numbers grew. I mean that userbase came to incorporate new, different types of users.
edmundsauto 6y ago
Maybe they listened to feedback and updated their priors? Why do you believe their real intention was revealed a week ago, and not today?
- shaggyfrog 6y ago
  Updated their priors? Review their history. Their "real intentions" have been "revealed" multiple times over the past several months (or years). It's a litany of privacy-related blunders. This is pure PR; words to distract you from their many misdeeds. Trust, but verify, yes? Well, they're verifiably full of crapola. So why would you trust?

adrianmonk 6y ago

One thing that has changed is that their userbase broadened. They were mostly focused on workplace meetings. If that's your focus, then most of your users are employees of some company whose contact information you have. Users with unverified identities are a corner case that you may not feel is worth trying to get right. Thanks to the pandemic, they have millions of new users who use Zoom for personal purposes (meeting with friends and family, etc.). What once was a corner case isn't anymore. It might even be their most common type of user. I'm not arguing that Zoom can necessarily be trusted, but I can see a plausible reason how they could have gotten to where they are on this issue.

user982 6y ago
> One thing that has changed is that their userbase broadened. Their userbase changed in the two weeks since they announced their policy?
- adrianmonk 6y ago
  I agree they should be cluing in by now. I'm just saying it could be growing pains from shifting from a B2B business to a B2C business. That difference has huge effects on product design and on your mindset. Being slow to realign your mindset with reality isn't necessarily the same thing as being dishonest or disreputable. But yeah, while feeling that you can't trust them because they don't know what they're doing is not the same as feeling that you can't trust them because they're in cahoots with someone (governments, etc.) against your interests, in the end they're both forms of feeling that you can't trust them.
shaggyfrog 6y ago
They have more users, but so what? They suddenly found (privacy) religion, so now they can be trusted? That certainly sounds like a leap of faith. A blind one. Stop looking at the empty words they say, and start looking at their very intentional and malignant actions over the last few months/years.
- adrianmonk 6y ago
  I guess "broadened" could be interpreted two ways. I don't mean the numbers grew. I mean that userbase came to incorporate new, different types of users.

edmundsauto 6y ago

Maybe they listened to feedback and updated their priors? Why do you believe their real intention was revealed a week ago, and not today?

shaggyfrog 6y ago
Updated their priors? Review their history. Their "real intentions" have been "revealed" multiple times over the past several months (or years). It's a litany of privacy-related blunders. This is pure PR; words to distract you from their many misdeeds. Trust, but verify, yes? Well, they're verifiably full of crapola. So why would you trust?