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Quite the opposite: the free market will deal with this just fine, giving a big penalty to companies that don't care enough. The government, on the other hand,

by devcpp 6y ago

Quite the opposite: the free market will deal with this just fine, giving a big penalty to companies that don't care enough. The government, on the other hand, imposes bad businesses, enables regulatory capture and has proven many times that it has no idea how to handle infosec. These white hat consultants aren't perfect but through competition they're still better than lobbied lawmakers.

bbaumgar 6y ago
Do you think that the free market worked as desired in the case of Equifax?
- flareback 6y ago
  Do you think we actually have a free market?
  - mitchdoogle 6y ago
    If we don't have a free market, it doesn't do much good to say the free market will solve any of our problems.
    - baddox 6y ago
      Huh? Presumably the suggestion is to make the market freer.
      - IggleSniggle 6y ago
        Or perhaps to acknowledge that the assumptions about a free-market ignore the realities of human psychology, and thus a free-market inherently cannot exist because humans are not capable of producing a free market without regulation, and regulation is antithetical to a truly free market?
- aarongray 6y ago
  The idea is not that the free market will always produce perfect results and perfect goods. The idea is that the free market will produce better results at a faster pace with less unintended consequences than government intervention. Government intervention rarely happens proactively, just as major market changes rarely happen proactively. Supplier failure on a large scale makes it apparent that change is necessary, and only then do changes follow, either from the top down by government intervention, or from the bottom up by the market.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ianleeclark 6y ago
Free markets don't exist outside of textbooks and can't due to the complexities of social relations we have to deal with in the real world. It seems like you're suggesting a solution that can't ever work by merit of it being unable to exist.
jeremyjh 6y ago
Free markets do not capture all externalities.
SamuelAdams 6y ago
The FDA made it mandatory for food manufacturers to list their ingredients on food they sell. Prior to these laws no food manufacturer was willing to do this freely, for fear of someone else stealing their recipe. But now consumers can make informed decisions and avoid foods that will give them severe, life threatening allergic reactions. Every citizen who drives a motor vehicle must be issued a driver's licence by the state they reside in. This enables a minimum understanding of how a complex machine (the highway transportation system) works so that other drivers / participants of that system can use it safely. Without regulation, vehicle collisions would be rampant and the system would be far less stable. Not all government regulation and oversight is bad. I highly recommend reading the book "Click here to kill everybody" by Bruce Schneier [1]. Bruce has been in the cyber-security world for a long time now and is considered one of the world's foremost experts on cryptography and computer security. In this book he makes projections about the "internet of things (internet+)" and the security problems that will come with it. He strongly advocates for government oversight and legal reform in multiple areas. [1]: https://www.schneier.com/books/click_here/ https://www.schneier.com/books/click_here/
- smooth_remmy 6y ago
  > The FDA made it mandatory for food manufacturers to list their ingredients on food they sell FDA still allows companies to hide ingredients under the guise of "natural flavors" and "artificial flavors". I hope you aren't allergic to one of those! > Every citizen who drives a motor vehicle must be issued a driver's licence by the state they reside in. This enables a minimum understanding of how a complex machine (the highway transportation system) works so that other drivers / participants of that system can use it safely. License plate technology helps the government (and private companies) know where-ever you are at all times! https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-06/why-privacy-advocates-fear-license-plate-readers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-06/why-priva... https://www.cnet.com/news/this-company-could-turn-every-homes-camera-into-a-license-plate-reader/ https://www.cnet.com/news/this-company-could-turn-every-home...
addHocker 6y ago
My marketing million outruns your security billion every day of the weak. There are no informed deciders, that is a delusion of "anyone" can walk this deep. That sort of delusion got us the year of the linux-desktop.

by devcpp 6y ago

bbaumgar 6y ago

Do you think that the free market worked as desired in the case of Equifax?

flareback 6y ago
Do you think we actually have a free market?
- mitchdoogle 6y ago
  If we don't have a free market, it doesn't do much good to say the free market will solve any of our problems.
  - baddox 6y ago
    Huh? Presumably the suggestion is to make the market freer.
    - IggleSniggle 6y ago
      Or perhaps to acknowledge that the assumptions about a free-market ignore the realities of human psychology, and thus a free-market inherently cannot exist because humans are not capable of producing a free market without regulation, and regulation is antithetical to a truly free market?
aarongray 6y ago
The idea is not that the free market will always produce perfect results and perfect goods. The idea is that the free market will produce better results at a faster pace with less unintended consequences than government intervention. Government intervention rarely happens proactively, just as major market changes rarely happen proactively. Supplier failure on a large scale makes it apparent that change is necessary, and only then do changes follow, either from the top down by government intervention, or from the bottom up by the market.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ianleeclark 6y ago

Free markets don't exist outside of textbooks and can't due to the complexities of social relations we have to deal with in the real world. It seems like you're suggesting a solution that can't ever work by merit of it being unable to exist.

jeremyjh 6y ago

Free markets do not capture all externalities.

SamuelAdams 6y ago

The FDA made it mandatory for food manufacturers to list their ingredients on food they sell. Prior to these laws no food manufacturer was willing to do this freely, for fear of someone else stealing their recipe. But now consumers can make informed decisions and avoid foods that will give them severe, life threatening allergic reactions. Every citizen who drives a motor vehicle must be issued a driver's licence by the state they reside in. This enables a minimum understanding of how a complex machine (the highway transportation system) works so that other drivers / participants of that system can use it safely. Without regulation, vehicle collisions would be rampant and the system would be far less stable. Not all government regulation and oversight is bad. I highly recommend reading the book "Click here to kill everybody" by Bruce Schneier [1]. Bruce has been in the cyber-security world for a long time now and is considered one of the world's foremost experts on cryptography and computer security. In this book he makes projections about the "internet of things (internet+)" and the security problems that will come with it. He strongly advocates for government oversight and legal reform in multiple areas. [1]: https://www.schneier.com/books/click_here/ https://www.schneier.com/books/click_here/

smooth_remmy 6y ago
> The FDA made it mandatory for food manufacturers to list their ingredients on food they sell FDA still allows companies to hide ingredients under the guise of "natural flavors" and "artificial flavors". I hope you aren't allergic to one of those! > Every citizen who drives a motor vehicle must be issued a driver's licence by the state they reside in. This enables a minimum understanding of how a complex machine (the highway transportation system) works so that other drivers / participants of that system can use it safely. License plate technology helps the government (and private companies) know where-ever you are at all times! https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-06/why-privacy-advocates-fear-license-plate-readers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-06/why-priva... https://www.cnet.com/news/this-company-could-turn-every-homes-camera-into-a-license-plate-reader/ https://www.cnet.com/news/this-company-could-turn-every-home...

addHocker 6y ago

My marketing million outruns your security billion every day of the weak. There are no informed deciders, that is a delusion of "anyone" can walk this deep. That sort of delusion got us the year of the linux-desktop.