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After using a rMBP for 6 years, I realized that using a lower resolution and lower quality display makes absolutely no sense at all if both graphical power and

by coreai 6y ago

After using a rMBP for 6 years, I realized that using a lower resolution and lower quality display makes absolutely no sense at all if both graphical power and budget is available (first 13' rMBP had some serious issue driving the display). Better quality image is better quality image. I think Apple's biggest selling point over any vendor right now, despite numerous issues with its hardware and software in the recent past, is absolutely top class input and output. It is such a simple concept. A great keyboard (seems to be fixed now) and absolutely incredible trackpad experience along with a display that basically is a huge step up from your past experience means that most users will prefer that setup even if they just use it for basic coding or web browsing. After looking at the first retina displays I realized that Apple didn't just change the displays but it changed how fonts behaved completely because the crisp and clear legibility was key to attract customers early on. I'd say even in 2020 most computers are struggling with good displays which can completely ruin the experience for someone using the product even if every other aspect of it was great.

bredren 6y ago
I've been focused on Apple display products for the past few months as I'm looking to make an upgrade from the Dell P2715Q 4k 27" I use primarily for development. There is a three page thread on using the Apple 32" XDR for software dev on MacRumors. [1] I believe there is a major product gap at Apple right now in the mid-market display. Specifically a replacement for the LED 27" Cinema Display which was announced 10 years ago next month. [2] I am speculating that Apple could announce a new 27" 5k in part because of the rumored announcement of a new Mac Pro but also because the build quality of the LG 5k Ultrafine is just not great and there are obvious synergies with XDR production and Mac Pro. I think this should be announced at WWDC is because developers specifically are being left out of good display products and Apple should be looking out for what they stare at all day. While there are no supply chain rumors of such a display, I wargamed what this product might be and its pricing anyway.[3] In short, I speculate Apple will release a 27 inch IPS display, 5120 x 2880 @ 60Hz with standard glass at $1999, Nano-texture Glass at $2799. I had not paid a lot of attention to the refresh rate, but it does seem like kind of a miss that the XDR does nor offer this. --- [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/xdr-for-software-dev.2220838/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/xdr-for-software-dev.22... [2] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2010/07/27Apple-Unveils-New-27-inch-LED-Cinema-Display/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2010/07/27Apple-Unveils-New-2... [3] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/wishful-thinking-wwdc-debuts-new-apple-mid-market-display.2235940/post-28555359 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/wishful-thinking-wwdc-d...
- fossuser 6y ago
  I really wanted the new Apple display, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay $14k for a pair of them. I ended up going with Dell U2720Qs, and after some tedious initial work to get them running natively at 60hz, they're fine. I would have bought the Apple displays in a second though if they had been priced up to maybe even 3k each.
  - diroussel 6y ago
    I have just got a U2720Q, it worked at 60Hz right away. But I am connecting over USB-C, with the provided cable. What it did find off-putting is that Dell say they don't test with Macs, and thus can't support them, but they just assume that Appl follow the same specification they do. A bit weak, but the monitor does work fine.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  > 27 inch IPS display, 5120 x 2880 @ 60Hz with standard glass at $1999 That's $200 more than it costs with the computer built in. Would rather see it more aggressively priced, or at least bring back target mode.
  - bredren 6y ago
    This is an important point. I have a pal with an aging 5k imac that he wishes he could use only as a monitor with a new mac mini. It seems display tech in imac is severely discounted in order to sell the whole thing. And it does seem to break the pricing if you don't see them as different products offering value for different configurations. Bringing back target mode, or allowing the iMac to act as an external monitor would greatly increase the value of that product. I can't explain how this pricing makes sense exactly, except that I can only assume Apple will want or need to price this stuff high to help differentiate the build quality in comparison to the collaboration on LG's ultrafine.
    - freeqaz 6y ago
      I bet somebody could make a business refurbishing those old 5K iMacs into usable monitors. Either yank the panel into a new case w/ a custom board to drive the display, or hack an input into the existing system (maybe with a minimal booting OS). Either way, that'd be a cool product to see and seems like a decent side hustle to get some $. :)
diffeomorphism 6y ago
For the trackpad I agree, but definitely not for the keyboard. And apple was late(!) to hires screens and to hidpi and now has lower res and density than the competition (e.g. 16:10 better 4k on dell xps or 3:2 screens with MS and others). Also, apple had TN screens forever when the similarly priced competition had higher res IPS screens.
- EForEndeavour 6y ago
  Isn't 4k on a laptop a significant power drain? And isn't the point of "stopping" at Retina resolution that the human eye can't tell the difference between Retina and higher resolutions like 4K at typical laptop screen size and viewing distance?
- robertoandred 6y ago
  Who else had hi-res screens in 2012?
  - TacticalTable 6y ago
    Nobody in the laptop scene. They were the only ones with an OS that could correctly handle scaling at the time.
    - wtetzner 6y ago
      I had a 1080p Alienware laptop in 2004. Then for some reason, laptops all went even lower resolution for a long time, and I couldn't find a good one until Apple came out with their Retina displays. Not sure what happened. Manufacturers just became cheap?
- ksec 6y ago
  >Also, apple had TN screens forever when the similarly priced competition had higher res IPS screens. As far as I am aware Apple only used TN screen for their MacBook Air. They were also the first to push Retina / Hi PPI Display on Consumer PC.
delecti 6y ago
I honestly find MBP trackpads to be too big, which is admittedly a preference thing, but their keyboards are absolutely horrible, and I have difficulty understanding how anyone could think they were "great". There's not enough distinguishing keys from each other, so I can't ground myself to the home row. I can't think of many keyboards I've used throughout my life that I enjoy less than the MBP. And that's not even mentioning the quality issues (duplicated or broken keys), or the lack of Fn keys.
- stu2b50 6y ago
  Are you talking about the butterfly (2016-2019) keyboards or the new magic keyboard OP (2020) was talking about?
  - delecti 6y ago
    I was talking about the butterfly keyboards. I don't see anything in the comment I replied to that really lines up with what you're saying.
    - stu2b50 6y ago
      >A great keyboard (seems to be fixed now) The "fixed now" part is the replacement of the Butterfly keyboard across Apple's laptop (and even the iPad docks!) lineup
      - delecti 6y ago
        You might be right, though if so that would also imply they thought it was great before it was fixed, and I still disagree with that.
wtetzner 6y ago
I've found the keyboard on my Surface Book to be much better than the keyboard on any of the MBPs I've used and owned. The trackpad was just as good, too. But of course, the OS was worse, mostly in terms of performance. Windows 10 just always feels slow for some reason.

by coreai 6y ago

bredren 6y ago

I've been focused on Apple display products for the past few months as I'm looking to make an upgrade from the Dell P2715Q 4k 27" I use primarily for development. There is a three page thread on using the Apple 32" XDR for software dev on MacRumors. [1] I believe there is a major product gap at Apple right now in the mid-market display. Specifically a replacement for the LED 27" Cinema Display which was announced 10 years ago next month. [2] I am speculating that Apple could announce a new 27" 5k in part because of the rumored announcement of a new Mac Pro but also because the build quality of the LG 5k Ultrafine is just not great and there are obvious synergies with XDR production and Mac Pro. I think this should be announced at WWDC is because developers specifically are being left out of good display products and Apple should be looking out for what they stare at all day. While there are no supply chain rumors of such a display, I wargamed what this product might be and its pricing anyway.[3] In short, I speculate Apple will release a 27 inch IPS display, 5120 x 2880 @ 60Hz with standard glass at $1999, Nano-texture Glass at $2799. I had not paid a lot of attention to the refresh rate, but it does seem like kind of a miss that the XDR does nor offer this. --- [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/xdr-for-software-dev.2220838/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/xdr-for-software-dev.22... [2] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2010/07/27Apple-Unveils-New-27-inch-LED-Cinema-Display/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2010/07/27Apple-Unveils-New-2... [3] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/wishful-thinking-wwdc-debuts-new-apple-mid-market-display.2235940/post-28555359 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/wishful-thinking-wwdc-d...

fossuser 6y ago
I really wanted the new Apple display, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay $14k for a pair of them. I ended up going with Dell U2720Qs, and after some tedious initial work to get them running natively at 60hz, they're fine. I would have bought the Apple displays in a second though if they had been priced up to maybe even 3k each.
- diroussel 6y ago
  I have just got a U2720Q, it worked at 60Hz right away. But I am connecting over USB-C, with the provided cable. What it did find off-putting is that Dell say they don't test with Macs, and thus can't support them, but they just assume that Appl follow the same specification they do. A bit weak, but the monitor does work fine.
rootusrootus 6y ago
> 27 inch IPS display, 5120 x 2880 @ 60Hz with standard glass at $1999 That's $200 more than it costs with the computer built in. Would rather see it more aggressively priced, or at least bring back target mode.
- bredren 6y ago
  This is an important point. I have a pal with an aging 5k imac that he wishes he could use only as a monitor with a new mac mini. It seems display tech in imac is severely discounted in order to sell the whole thing. And it does seem to break the pricing if you don't see them as different products offering value for different configurations. Bringing back target mode, or allowing the iMac to act as an external monitor would greatly increase the value of that product. I can't explain how this pricing makes sense exactly, except that I can only assume Apple will want or need to price this stuff high to help differentiate the build quality in comparison to the collaboration on LG's ultrafine.
  - freeqaz 6y ago
    I bet somebody could make a business refurbishing those old 5K iMacs into usable monitors. Either yank the panel into a new case w/ a custom board to drive the display, or hack an input into the existing system (maybe with a minimal booting OS). Either way, that'd be a cool product to see and seems like a decent side hustle to get some $. :)

diffeomorphism 6y ago

For the trackpad I agree, but definitely not for the keyboard. And apple was late(!) to hires screens and to hidpi and now has lower res and density than the competition (e.g. 16:10 better 4k on dell xps or 3:2 screens with MS and others). Also, apple had TN screens forever when the similarly priced competition had higher res IPS screens.

EForEndeavour 6y ago
Isn't 4k on a laptop a significant power drain? And isn't the point of "stopping" at Retina resolution that the human eye can't tell the difference between Retina and higher resolutions like 4K at typical laptop screen size and viewing distance?
robertoandred 6y ago
Who else had hi-res screens in 2012?
- TacticalTable 6y ago
  Nobody in the laptop scene. They were the only ones with an OS that could correctly handle scaling at the time.
  - wtetzner 6y ago
    I had a 1080p Alienware laptop in 2004. Then for some reason, laptops all went even lower resolution for a long time, and I couldn't find a good one until Apple came out with their Retina displays. Not sure what happened. Manufacturers just became cheap?
ksec 6y ago
>Also, apple had TN screens forever when the similarly priced competition had higher res IPS screens. As far as I am aware Apple only used TN screen for their MacBook Air. They were also the first to push Retina / Hi PPI Display on Consumer PC.

delecti 6y ago

I honestly find MBP trackpads to be too big, which is admittedly a preference thing, but their keyboards are absolutely horrible, and I have difficulty understanding how anyone could think they were "great". There's not enough distinguishing keys from each other, so I can't ground myself to the home row. I can't think of many keyboards I've used throughout my life that I enjoy less than the MBP. And that's not even mentioning the quality issues (duplicated or broken keys), or the lack of Fn keys.

stu2b50 6y ago
Are you talking about the butterfly (2016-2019) keyboards or the new magic keyboard OP (2020) was talking about?
- delecti 6y ago
  I was talking about the butterfly keyboards. I don't see anything in the comment I replied to that really lines up with what you're saying.
  - stu2b50 6y ago
    >A great keyboard (seems to be fixed now) The "fixed now" part is the replacement of the Butterfly keyboard across Apple's laptop (and even the iPad docks!) lineup
    - delecti 6y ago
      You might be right, though if so that would also imply they thought it was great before it was fixed, and I still disagree with that.

wtetzner 6y ago

I've found the keyboard on my Surface Book to be much better than the keyboard on any of the MBPs I've used and owned. The trackpad was just as good, too. But of course, the OS was worse, mostly in terms of performance. Windows 10 just always feels slow for some reason.