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The current presence on Twitch of young, funny chess masters like the Chess Brahs and the Botez sisters with top level talents like Nakamura crossing over with

The current presence on Twitch of young, funny chess masters like the Chess Brahs and the Botez sisters with top level talents like Nakamura crossing over with famous xQc-types is maybe the best thing to happen to chess in recent years to showcase it as something fun loving young people can enjoy, not just the dusty old men and social incompetents of caricature. It would be great if it encourages new people to come in from esports and elsewhere, and bust through the gatekeepers and play this brilliant game. https://www.twitch.tv/botezlive https://www.twitch.tv/botezlive Botez Compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VVcrwQGqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VVcrwQGqU ----- https://www.twitch.tv/chessbrah https://www.twitch.tv/chessbrah ChessBrahs Nightcore Bullet Run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCYEUQvjq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCYEUQvjq4 (comment reposted with video links from a submission I posted on the subject the other day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23397314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23397314)

bradly 6y ago
> Twitch of young, funny chess masters Don't forget about the old, funny chess masters :) https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold
SubiculumCode 6y ago
Wait, Botez has a sister?
- mellosouls 6y ago
  Yep, she's featured in the compilation above. They are great as a duo as well.
krick 6y ago
Yeah, everyone repeats this "the best thing to happen to chess" passage, but, seriously, I don't see how it makes any sense. I mean, good for who? "Chess"? Chess is a game, it doesn't give a fuck who plays or watches it. It may be argued that chess is rather a field for studies, which, like any science, benefits from more resources spent on studying it, but let's be honest: future GMs are not bored 20 y.o. kids, introduced to chess by watching xQc. So, no, it is not good, nor especially bad for chess. Is it good for Hikaru? Definitely. It is good for Hikaru, Botez, maybe Naroditsky or whoever else will manage to catch a ride on the hype train. Because they get more money. Alexandra's channel is now worth like 50 times more than 2 months ago, and market for coaching will be probably bigger now. Likewise, it is good for chess.com, which has all these guys on a payroll under contracts that forbid them streaming while playing on any other platform than chess.com Community... Well, it's hard to define who exactly constitutes a community, but if we are talking about people who were playing chess and watching GMHikaru or BotezLive 2 months ago, it doesn't seem to me they got anything out of it. It was a community of somewhat similarly-minded people, there was at least some space for meaningful conversations in twitch-chat. Absolute majority was actually somewhat into chess (probably like 1100-1800 ELO) and there was a nice homely environment. Now all the trash previously contained within xQc's channel is spilled all over the place, it's just mindless spamming emotes and such. 50% of Hikaru's content is now "reacting to xQc doing stupid shit". 700-ELO player who at least attempts to think before making a move is now "naturally talented player and definitely not a newbie". I mean, honestly, it just isn't enjoyable anymore. It isn't the place these people used to come for. And people who got introduced to chess because they were Forsen's of xQc's viewers didn't actually get much either, because they don't really care about the subject. If xQc was suddenly an avid crossword-puzzle sover, they would obsess over crossword-puzzles all the same. It doesn't matter.
- nafey 6y ago
  It is good for chess economy as a whole. By that I mean people who make income by playing tournaments, authoring chess books, making lessons etc. More eyeballs means more money.
  - krick 6y ago
    Well, I said, that it is good for a subset of those who make money on it. I didn't bother to mention the obvious, that "whoever else manages to catch a ride on the hype train" isn't restricted to those I named. But don't mistake it with "chess economy as a whole". Major chess tournaments, for instance, are quite specific thing, it won't really notice these new 40k Hikaru's viewers, as money source is different. And professional full-format chess won't ever be popular thing to watch anyway, it isn't football or even CS:GO, it isn't really watchable even for somewhat good players.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  I'm working on the basis that greater initial engagement leads to greater long term engagement. And what we are seeing now is a much higher influx than I can remember. So what if a large proportion aren't in it for the chess and will move on to the next craze? Some of them will be converted and grow the game. As for the "trash previously contained within xQc's channel", I'm not sure how that's different (except in quantity) to the level of chat there has been for a long time in chess on twitch/discord etc. It's quite sobering to think of chess as an intellectual game and find out that your average young "community" member is not really demonstrating intelligence above the norm in other subjects. The influx of non-chess newbies has not lowered the bar in that regard that I've noticed, tho there has been an inevitable swamping effect. I think while it's good to caution against rose-tinted views of this recent phenomenon, we also need to be careful not to fall into the gatekeeping I mention in my initial post - it's really important to remember we all have to start somewhere. Nobody comes in to this game as a master.
- Tiltowait-- 6y ago
  Chess the subculture. It's been declining for a long time, ever since Deep Blue beat Kasparov. It doesn't help that there aren't any Afro-American grandmasters, they're all pale, male, and stale. Getting fresh blood into the game is a good thing for the people. You're right, the actual game of chess is an abstract idea that doesn't benefit.
Tiltowait-- 6y ago
Don't be so anxious to see casuals come in to your cozy community. They bring money, but also squeeze out the fanatics, and the money attracts sociopaths who ruin everything. This outstanding essay I read the other day explains the whole process very well: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

bradly 6y ago

> Twitch of young, funny chess masters Don't forget about the old, funny chess masters :) https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold

SubiculumCode 6y ago

Wait, Botez has a sister?

mellosouls 6y ago
Yep, she's featured in the compilation above. They are great as a duo as well.

krick 6y ago

Yeah, everyone repeats this "the best thing to happen to chess" passage, but, seriously, I don't see how it makes any sense. I mean, good for who? "Chess"? Chess is a game, it doesn't give a fuck who plays or watches it. It may be argued that chess is rather a field for studies, which, like any science, benefits from more resources spent on studying it, but let's be honest: future GMs are not bored 20 y.o. kids, introduced to chess by watching xQc. So, no, it is not good, nor especially bad for chess. Is it good for Hikaru? Definitely. It is good for Hikaru, Botez, maybe Naroditsky or whoever else will manage to catch a ride on the hype train. Because they get more money. Alexandra's channel is now worth like 50 times more than 2 months ago, and market for coaching will be probably bigger now. Likewise, it is good for chess.com, which has all these guys on a payroll under contracts that forbid them streaming while playing on any other platform than chess.com Community... Well, it's hard to define who exactly constitutes a community, but if we are talking about people who were playing chess and watching GMHikaru or BotezLive 2 months ago, it doesn't seem to me they got anything out of it. It was a community of somewhat similarly-minded people, there was at least some space for meaningful conversations in twitch-chat. Absolute majority was actually somewhat into chess (probably like 1100-1800 ELO) and there was a nice homely environment. Now all the trash previously contained within xQc's channel is spilled all over the place, it's just mindless spamming emotes and such. 50% of Hikaru's content is now "reacting to xQc doing stupid shit". 700-ELO player who at least attempts to think before making a move is now "naturally talented player and definitely not a newbie". I mean, honestly, it just isn't enjoyable anymore. It isn't the place these people used to come for. And people who got introduced to chess because they were Forsen's of xQc's viewers didn't actually get much either, because they don't really care about the subject. If xQc was suddenly an avid crossword-puzzle sover, they would obsess over crossword-puzzles all the same. It doesn't matter.

nafey 6y ago
It is good for chess economy as a whole. By that I mean people who make income by playing tournaments, authoring chess books, making lessons etc. More eyeballs means more money.
- krick 6y ago
  Well, I said, that it is good for a subset of those who make money on it. I didn't bother to mention the obvious, that "whoever else manages to catch a ride on the hype train" isn't restricted to those I named. But don't mistake it with "chess economy as a whole". Major chess tournaments, for instance, are quite specific thing, it won't really notice these new 40k Hikaru's viewers, as money source is different. And professional full-format chess won't ever be popular thing to watch anyway, it isn't football or even CS:GO, it isn't really watchable even for somewhat good players.
mellosouls 6y ago
I'm working on the basis that greater initial engagement leads to greater long term engagement. And what we are seeing now is a much higher influx than I can remember. So what if a large proportion aren't in it for the chess and will move on to the next craze? Some of them will be converted and grow the game. As for the "trash previously contained within xQc's channel", I'm not sure how that's different (except in quantity) to the level of chat there has been for a long time in chess on twitch/discord etc. It's quite sobering to think of chess as an intellectual game and find out that your average young "community" member is not really demonstrating intelligence above the norm in other subjects. The influx of non-chess newbies has not lowered the bar in that regard that I've noticed, tho there has been an inevitable swamping effect. I think while it's good to caution against rose-tinted views of this recent phenomenon, we also need to be careful not to fall into the gatekeeping I mention in my initial post - it's really important to remember we all have to start somewhere. Nobody comes in to this game as a master.
Tiltowait-- 6y ago
Chess the subculture. It's been declining for a long time, ever since Deep Blue beat Kasparov. It doesn't help that there aren't any Afro-American grandmasters, they're all pale, male, and stale. Getting fresh blood into the game is a good thing for the people. You're right, the actual game of chess is an abstract idea that doesn't benefit.

Tiltowait-- 6y ago

Don't be so anxious to see casuals come in to your cozy community. They bring money, but also squeeze out the fanatics, and the money attracts sociopaths who ruin everything. This outstanding essay I read the other day explains the whole process very well: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths