7 ms·

Do you not consider Japanese to be Western? I mean, America literally rebuilt the moral, ethical, and political environment after dropping the bomb.

bluntfang 6y ago
I don't understand why I'm getting downvoted. Is what I am saying incorrect?
- wodenokoto 6y ago
  Yes.
- AndrewKemendo 6y ago
  Yes. Japan is generally considered part of the "Eastern World." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_world
  - mthoms 6y ago
    Culturally yes, but it depends on context. As mentioned in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world , during the Cold War and after, "Western World" was roughly analogous with "First world". That is to say, (again, roughly) - "modern, stable, (primarily) capitalist, democracies aligned with Western Europe/USA". So, in the context of geopolitics and political ideologies many people still consider it to include Japan and South Korea. Yours truly included. Not that I care as much about the "aligned with" part anymore, but certainly the "modern, stable, democracy" part.
    - Tiltowait-- 6y ago
      Japan is an Eastern country. If you want to define "the West" as "First World countries" you'd be wrong. There is an intersection between these two sets that does not encompass everything. Unless you're trying to say that only Western cultures can be modern stable democracies, but of course you wouldn't say something obviously wrong like that.
- jeromegv 6y ago
  Yes. First you attribute what Japan is to how the US rebuilt it, when in fact this society has thousands of years of history before the US. Sure we can't deny US influence after WW2 and how integrated they are in the global economy, that doesn't make it a westernized country.
  - ersii 6y ago
    Not to be annoying, but can't this be said about most places? Like continental Europe.
    - mistersquid 6y ago
      Continental Europe is considered, by and large, to be "The West", as is the United States. In this context, the US is a new country but very much representative of the Western world.
- FakeRemore 6y ago
  A cursory glance at Japanese culture and values shows me that America has had far less influence on its development than you believe. On the scale of individuality/community, Japan is further on the opposite side. The anime/manga industry is quite different than anything we have in the West, and a lot of their values tie into the things that are depicted, what's okay, what's not okay, etc. We often see traditional influences on their media that simply don't exist in the West in the same way (comparison of the American and Japanese versions of The Ring: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01956051.2011.562934?scroll=top&needAccess=true& https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01956051.2011.5...).
jpxw 6y ago
Have you ever been to Japan?
- whatshisface 6y ago
  Japan is twice as far from California going East as it is going West. The parent must be using that definition. ;)
  - asveikau 6y ago
    I remember once it felt a bit jarring when I heard native American cultures contrasted with "western" ones. Surely they are more "western" than Europeans.
    - devmunchies 6y ago
      Native Americans and pre-Christian pagan Europeans had a lot in common. Both cultures that honor seasonal cycles, animals, nature, ancestors, animism etc. Unfortunately “western” is now seen as the Abrahamic judeo-Christian capitalistic worldview, even though the west sprang out of pagan Greece and Rome.
      - tomnipotent 6y ago
        Rome was Christian when the Western and Eastern empires were founded, and when they fell. My understanding is that modern West/East etymology is heavily influenced by the Western/Eastern Roman empires.
        Bayart 6y ago
        Yes, strictly speaking the West, the Occident, is born out of the leftovers of the Western Roman Empire.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        >Unfortunately “western” is now seen as the Abrahamic judeo-Christian capitalistic worldview, even though the west sprang out of pagan Greece and Rome. The west "sprang out of pagan Greece and Rome" when they decided to become Christian. The actual pagans had been slowly abandoning paganism as a dead-end and turning more into esoteric religions and neo-planonism etc and the influence of Egyptian etc religions for several centuries before Christianism was a thing...
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
Japanese culture is quite different from American culture. We did rebuild them, and McArthur is revered as a god, over there. But they really have their own culture, and some aspects can strike us as quite strange (as, I am sure, some aspects of our culture weird them out). I worked for a Japanese company, and went there, multiple times a year, for about twenty years (all Tokyo, so I can't speak for the rest of Japan). I think that there are a number of Japanese and US/EU expats that live in Japan, on this board.
- soraminazuki 6y ago
  > McArthur is revered as a god, over there While he's undeniably a famous historical figure in Japan, my impression is that the majority of Japanese people don't have any strong opinions about him. After all, how many people actually care so much about historical figures when they're busy watching cat videos on YouTube? But for the people who do have some interest, I assume many have mixed feelings on the matter, which is natural for citizens of a former military dictatorship turned democracy only because they lost the world war. The rest are far-right people who, as you can imagine, hate him with a passion, though I do hope they're only a minority of Japanese people whose voices are amplified by Twitter echo chambers.
  - soperj 6y ago
    >though I do hope they're only a minority of Japanese people whose voices are amplified by Twitter echo chambers. Why? There's a reason Dugout Doug was fired during the Korean War. Guy was a menace.
    - soraminazuki 6y ago
      Because the kinds of people who likes to pile on McArthur are mostly far-right people who are trying to discredit the positive things he did, especially his team's work on drafting the current Japanese constitution which established a democratic system with strong safeguards for human rights. It's not McArthur's own character that I'm taking issues with.

bluntfang 6y ago

I don't understand why I'm getting downvoted. Is what I am saying incorrect?

wodenokoto 6y ago
Yes.
AndrewKemendo 6y ago
Yes. Japan is generally considered part of the "Eastern World." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_world
- mthoms 6y ago
  Culturally yes, but it depends on context. As mentioned in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world , during the Cold War and after, "Western World" was roughly analogous with "First world". That is to say, (again, roughly) - "modern, stable, (primarily) capitalist, democracies aligned with Western Europe/USA". So, in the context of geopolitics and political ideologies many people still consider it to include Japan and South Korea. Yours truly included. Not that I care as much about the "aligned with" part anymore, but certainly the "modern, stable, democracy" part.
  - Tiltowait-- 6y ago
    Japan is an Eastern country. If you want to define "the West" as "First World countries" you'd be wrong. There is an intersection between these two sets that does not encompass everything. Unless you're trying to say that only Western cultures can be modern stable democracies, but of course you wouldn't say something obviously wrong like that.
jeromegv 6y ago
Yes. First you attribute what Japan is to how the US rebuilt it, when in fact this society has thousands of years of history before the US. Sure we can't deny US influence after WW2 and how integrated they are in the global economy, that doesn't make it a westernized country.
- ersii 6y ago
  Not to be annoying, but can't this be said about most places? Like continental Europe.
  - mistersquid 6y ago
    Continental Europe is considered, by and large, to be "The West", as is the United States. In this context, the US is a new country but very much representative of the Western world.
FakeRemore 6y ago
A cursory glance at Japanese culture and values shows me that America has had far less influence on its development than you believe. On the scale of individuality/community, Japan is further on the opposite side. The anime/manga industry is quite different than anything we have in the West, and a lot of their values tie into the things that are depicted, what's okay, what's not okay, etc. We often see traditional influences on their media that simply don't exist in the West in the same way (comparison of the American and Japanese versions of The Ring: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01956051.2011.562934?scroll=top&needAccess=true& https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01956051.2011.5...).

jpxw 6y ago

Have you ever been to Japan?

whatshisface 6y ago
Japan is twice as far from California going East as it is going West. The parent must be using that definition. ;)
- asveikau 6y ago
  I remember once it felt a bit jarring when I heard native American cultures contrasted with "western" ones. Surely they are more "western" than Europeans.
  - devmunchies 6y ago
    Native Americans and pre-Christian pagan Europeans had a lot in common. Both cultures that honor seasonal cycles, animals, nature, ancestors, animism etc. Unfortunately “western” is now seen as the Abrahamic judeo-Christian capitalistic worldview, even though the west sprang out of pagan Greece and Rome.
    - tomnipotent 6y ago
      Rome was Christian when the Western and Eastern empires were founded, and when they fell. My understanding is that modern West/East etymology is heavily influenced by the Western/Eastern Roman empires.
      - Bayart 6y ago
        Yes, strictly speaking the West, the Occident, is born out of the leftovers of the Western Roman Empire.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >Unfortunately “western” is now seen as the Abrahamic judeo-Christian capitalistic worldview, even though the west sprang out of pagan Greece and Rome. The west "sprang out of pagan Greece and Rome" when they decided to become Christian. The actual pagans had been slowly abandoning paganism as a dead-end and turning more into esoteric religions and neo-planonism etc and the influence of Egyptian etc religions for several centuries before Christianism was a thing...

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

Japanese culture is quite different from American culture. We did rebuild them, and McArthur is revered as a god, over there. But they really have their own culture, and some aspects can strike us as quite strange (as, I am sure, some aspects of our culture weird them out). I worked for a Japanese company, and went there, multiple times a year, for about twenty years (all Tokyo, so I can't speak for the rest of Japan). I think that there are a number of Japanese and US/EU expats that live in Japan, on this board.

soraminazuki 6y ago
> McArthur is revered as a god, over there While he's undeniably a famous historical figure in Japan, my impression is that the majority of Japanese people don't have any strong opinions about him. After all, how many people actually care so much about historical figures when they're busy watching cat videos on YouTube? But for the people who do have some interest, I assume many have mixed feelings on the matter, which is natural for citizens of a former military dictatorship turned democracy only because they lost the world war. The rest are far-right people who, as you can imagine, hate him with a passion, though I do hope they're only a minority of Japanese people whose voices are amplified by Twitter echo chambers.
- soperj 6y ago
  >though I do hope they're only a minority of Japanese people whose voices are amplified by Twitter echo chambers. Why? There's a reason Dugout Doug was fired during the Korean War. Guy was a menace.
  - soraminazuki 6y ago
    Because the kinds of people who likes to pile on McArthur are mostly far-right people who are trying to discredit the positive things he did, especially his team's work on drafting the current Japanese constitution which established a democratic system with strong safeguards for human rights. It's not McArthur's own character that I'm taking issues with.