4 ms·

I'll reiterate that I'm left on all these issues. You're just wrong. The left has completely failed to shift public opinion on these matters. It's more of the

I'll reiterate that I'm left on all these issues. You're just wrong. The left has completely failed to shift public opinion on these matters. It's more of the same ineffective strategy of shaming. And before you cite some poll, realise that shaming IS effective at changing what people tell pollsters. Some social conservatives will publicly claim to support the current progressive issue du jour because they fear the shame of being seen as "hating black people" or "hating gay people". It's not about "pandering to people who fundamentally don't agree" it's about recognising that people can't suddenly become comfortable with gay people overnight, or as a result of shaming them for their views. What works is iterative consciousness-raising. A good example of this in mainstream left-leaning media was Amber Ruffin's police encounter anecdotes at the top of Late Night with Seth Meyers. That was powerful because it told a human story.

gizmo 6y ago
People aren't asked to become comfortable with gay people overnight. The lgbtq movement has been fighting for this for over 50 years. If evidence (polls and such) can't convince you that popular support for lgbtq people and solidarity against racism is going in the right direction there is no point in having a further discussion about this.
- sjwright 6y ago
  Polls are only evidence of the poll's results. It cannot read anyone's minds, nor are they guaranteed to reveal true intentions—especially when the individual being polled is being asked questions by a human. The gay and lesbian movement has been fighting for over 50 years and made slow but steady progress as the virtuous circle of increasing community acceptance which means more gay/lesbian people revealed to their own family, which increases community acceptance, which means more gay/lesbian people revealed to their own family, which increases community acceptance. Other groups in the rainbow have not been quite so patient. Look at what happened to J. K. Rowling recently as an example. Regardless what you think of what she said, the transgender community as a whole isn't improved by making enemies of as many people as possible. We need to show people in the rainbow our love and compassion, not find as many people as possible for them to fear or hate.
  - gizmo 6y ago
    Nothing happened to J.K. Rowling. She's still an immensely popular billionaire, despite her continued bigotry towards trans people. The trans acceptance movement started decades ago. Your suggestion that trans people need to be more patient is gross and insulting.
    - sjwright 6y ago
      It's like you're not even bothering to read what I wrote. You picked some prefabricated framing through which you've interpreted my comments and then proceeded to criticise things I didn't say. I sincerely weep for the transgender community that they have people like you purporting to defend them.
      - gizmo 6y ago
        You're not weeping, and nobody is asking for your tears. Your contention is that activism for lgbtq rights and BLM is counterproductive, because it's too hostile. The facts say it is working: https://twitter.com/sangerkatz/status/1270703905144537092 https://twitter.com/sangerkatz/status/1270703905144537092
        sjwright 6y ago
        So now you claim to know my mind. You must be very impressed with yourself. As to your second paragraph, I didn't say that. I would never say that activism is counter-productive. And I never said that activism wasn't working. Sigh, you're doing it again: you're not bothering to read what I wrote. You picked some prefabricated framing through which you've interpreted my comments and then proceeded to criticise things I didn't say. Conversing with people that reinterpret everything you say is unproductive and gets boring quickly. I encourage you to learn from your remarkable failures in conversation here, but you'll have to do so on your own as I'm not going to reply further. (Though I might check in one more time to see how much effort you put into baiting for a response now I've said I'm not going to. The more baited it is, the more I'm going to silently laugh at you.)

gizmo 6y ago

People aren't asked to become comfortable with gay people overnight. The lgbtq movement has been fighting for this for over 50 years. If evidence (polls and such) can't convince you that popular support for lgbtq people and solidarity against racism is going in the right direction there is no point in having a further discussion about this.

sjwright 6y ago
Polls are only evidence of the poll's results. It cannot read anyone's minds, nor are they guaranteed to reveal true intentions—especially when the individual being polled is being asked questions by a human. The gay and lesbian movement has been fighting for over 50 years and made slow but steady progress as the virtuous circle of increasing community acceptance which means more gay/lesbian people revealed to their own family, which increases community acceptance, which means more gay/lesbian people revealed to their own family, which increases community acceptance. Other groups in the rainbow have not been quite so patient. Look at what happened to J. K. Rowling recently as an example. Regardless what you think of what she said, the transgender community as a whole isn't improved by making enemies of as many people as possible. We need to show people in the rainbow our love and compassion, not find as many people as possible for them to fear or hate.
- gizmo 6y ago
  Nothing happened to J.K. Rowling. She's still an immensely popular billionaire, despite her continued bigotry towards trans people. The trans acceptance movement started decades ago. Your suggestion that trans people need to be more patient is gross and insulting.
  - sjwright 6y ago
    It's like you're not even bothering to read what I wrote. You picked some prefabricated framing through which you've interpreted my comments and then proceeded to criticise things I didn't say. I sincerely weep for the transgender community that they have people like you purporting to defend them.
    - gizmo 6y ago
      You're not weeping, and nobody is asking for your tears. Your contention is that activism for lgbtq rights and BLM is counterproductive, because it's too hostile. The facts say it is working: https://twitter.com/sangerkatz/status/1270703905144537092 https://twitter.com/sangerkatz/status/1270703905144537092
      - sjwright 6y ago
        So now you claim to know my mind. You must be very impressed with yourself. As to your second paragraph, I didn't say that. I would never say that activism is counter-productive. And I never said that activism wasn't working. Sigh, you're doing it again: you're not bothering to read what I wrote. You picked some prefabricated framing through which you've interpreted my comments and then proceeded to criticise things I didn't say. Conversing with people that reinterpret everything you say is unproductive and gets boring quickly. I encourage you to learn from your remarkable failures in conversation here, but you'll have to do so on your own as I'm not going to reply further. (Though I might check in one more time to see how much effort you put into baiting for a response now I've said I'm not going to. The more baited it is, the more I'm going to silently laugh at you.)