4 ms·

I think you should re-read everything about the Microsoft antitrust cases and apply that to Apple. It's pretty obvious to me what accounts to antitrust here an

I think you should re-read everything about the Microsoft antitrust cases and apply that to Apple. It's pretty obvious to me what accounts to antitrust here and it's been very obvious for years. I think you should ask yourself really deeply "if this was the case on OSX would I be ok with it?" And use that lens.

ratww 6y ago
It's not the same case. The allegation back then was that Microsoft was abusing monopoly power on Intel PCs in order to achieve victory in the browser wars. Also, an Intel executive even testified that the intent of Microsoft was indeed to kill Netscape. Neither of those things have happened here: Apple doesn't have monopoly power on cell phones, nor has achieved victory in a new browser wars due to bundling Safari. Whether new browsers (or browser engines, to be more precise) can be installed in iOS or not is a different matter altogether. Remember that back in the day it was possible to install Netscape on Windows, and Microsoft still got fire for it.
simonh 6y ago
I thought the browser finding against Microsoft was misconceived. The decision that including a browser in the operating system was anti-competitive bundling seems, from a modern perspective, utterly absurd. >It's pretty obvious to me what accounts to antitrust here and it's been very obvious for years. It's not obvious to me. >I think you should ask yourself really deeply "if this was the case on OSX would I be ok with it?" And use that lens. OSX is marketed as an OS that can run whatever software you like, and on which you can develop whatever software you like. Sure if they changed that I wouldn't be happy about it and I would move to another desktop OS. I would complain about it and fight it, but I wouldn't claim that Apple didn't have the right to do it. I don't have the right to dictate to Apple what products they design. OSX is a different tool for a different purpose. Not all tools, or even all screwdrivers have to be multi-bit screwdriver sets.
ubermonkey 6y ago
I really don't think you understand the material, enormous difference in positions here between MSFT during the antitrust/consent decree period, and Apple now. Microsoft controlled personal computing, full stop. The Mac was a rounding error in sales and desktops. They had a monopoly on an entire market, and as such were justifiably limited in their actions by the decrees and whatnot. iOS is a minority player. It's not even clear that they'd be a "monopoly" at 60% of the market, because Android provides such a strong alternative. Seeking to compel Apple to follow the rules set out for Microsoft at their most predatory is utter lunacy, and suggests a deep misunderstanding of the legal definition of "monopoly."

ratww 6y ago

It's not the same case. The allegation back then was that Microsoft was abusing monopoly power on Intel PCs in order to achieve victory in the browser wars. Also, an Intel executive even testified that the intent of Microsoft was indeed to kill Netscape. Neither of those things have happened here: Apple doesn't have monopoly power on cell phones, nor has achieved victory in a new browser wars due to bundling Safari. Whether new browsers (or browser engines, to be more precise) can be installed in iOS or not is a different matter altogether. Remember that back in the day it was possible to install Netscape on Windows, and Microsoft still got fire for it.

simonh 6y ago

I thought the browser finding against Microsoft was misconceived. The decision that including a browser in the operating system was anti-competitive bundling seems, from a modern perspective, utterly absurd. >It's pretty obvious to me what accounts to antitrust here and it's been very obvious for years. It's not obvious to me. >I think you should ask yourself really deeply "if this was the case on OSX would I be ok with it?" And use that lens. OSX is marketed as an OS that can run whatever software you like, and on which you can develop whatever software you like. Sure if they changed that I wouldn't be happy about it and I would move to another desktop OS. I would complain about it and fight it, but I wouldn't claim that Apple didn't have the right to do it. I don't have the right to dictate to Apple what products they design. OSX is a different tool for a different purpose. Not all tools, or even all screwdrivers have to be multi-bit screwdriver sets.

ubermonkey 6y ago

I really don't think you understand the material, enormous difference in positions here between MSFT during the antitrust/consent decree period, and Apple now. Microsoft controlled personal computing, full stop. The Mac was a rounding error in sales and desktops. They had a monopoly on an entire market, and as such were justifiably limited in their actions by the decrees and whatnot. iOS is a minority player. It's not even clear that they'd be a "monopoly" at 60% of the market, because Android provides such a strong alternative. Seeking to compel Apple to follow the rules set out for Microsoft at their most predatory is utter lunacy, and suggests a deep misunderstanding of the legal definition of "monopoly."